What's wrong with sport fighting?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
81

IMHO…eye strikes are only meant to create a moment to either run or launch a barrage of strikes. if you are facing off and try eye strikes then GOOD LUCK. but an eye strike if done fast enough can be the saving grace for a female in danger or a more non confrontational male. The eyes are pretty sensitive and if struck it will impair your ability to see allowing an opening for you to do SOMETHING…run or fight back.

People have been hit in the face and had an eyeball popped out. a thumb in the eye during a strike isn’t always a lucky punch. if your hands can touch someones face, you can start jamming fingers in their eyes. you may not dig out an eyeball but the pressure of having it violently pushed in is pretty effective in creating an opening.

but eye strikes unless you stab him in it won’t be an effective finishing strike.

On the other hand, not all fights outside the ring are against TRAINED FIGHTERS.

82

[QUOTE=Frost;1058095]i never mentioned poking the eyes i said eye strikes which can include anything from flicking past the eyes to poking them, to grabbing the head thrusting the thumb into the eye sockets and ramming your opponents head back into a wall (see us MMA guys do play around with the deadly stuff in the clinch from time to time)

I have a question how do you practise these moves so you know you can pull them off, i mean we have in built automatic defences when something comes towards the eye so what training do you do to make sure you can hit your opponents eyes in this way?[/QUOTE]
luckily, the Godz in their infinite wisdom have designed the human body to be disabled.
Eyes are only protected by a paper thin membrane, and are recessed in sockets, which act like a funnel, directing your finger into hem. In case you are slightly off-target, the nose guides you right back.
The throat is 3/4 exposed, the trachea being cartilige, and the vagus nerves, and carotid exposed. The back of the neck has the stem of the brain, base of skull, all good.
Turn your back on a fighter, and you are playing into his hands.
You are not a turtle.
The base of the skull, as mentioned before is prime target area.
The spine is completely exposed.(ever see someone bend over at the beach? (calm down..)you can count the vertebrea. Kidney, spleen, coccyx etc.
The testicles hang down between the legs-God forbid we get to have a skull there, right? And again, the legs guide your foot there if you happen to be slightly off target.

83

[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1058123] if your hands can touch someones face, you can start jamming fingers in their eyes. you may not dig out an eyeball but the pressure of having it violently pushed in is pretty effective in creating an opening.
[/QUOTE]
grabbing the head and ripping at anything and everything is dibilitating.
I don’t know if any of you recall “The shredder” dvd that was out awhile back. Pretty interesting. You could swear he studied Hung Kuen.

84

grabbing the head and ripping at anything and everything is dibilitating.
I don’t know if any of you recall “The shredder” dvd that was out awhile back. Pretty interesting. You could swear he studied Hung Kuen.

why it got to be hung kuen? why can’t it be Hung Sing Kuen? we’re known for our dibilitating fu jows hehehehe

85

[QUOTE=Frost;1058095]what training do you do to make sure you can hit your opponents eyes in this way?[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t matter that you can hit your opponent’s eyes or not. It’s “entering strategy”. The moment that your opponent worries about his eyes, you have put him in defense mode and forget to attack you. This way you can close distance safely and do whatever that you want to do. That’s your main goal - safe entering.

The easiest way is train this is just to attach a phone book on the wall. You can across your fingers on it. In the beginning, your fingers may only be able to rip 1 or 2 pages. The longer you train, the more pages that your fingers can rip.

In the western world, it’s called “bread and butter” move. TCMA call this “door guarding” move. That means if this move doesn’t work, it’s time to run like hell.

86

Thanks for the reply Frost, I get what you are saying, and take it on board, but some of it is simply alternative training, with the same opportunities for success or failure, depending on the effort applied.

I disagree that bare knuckle fighting care is a timidity thing. You can’t hide behind your gear, you can hurt your hands, bunch of things.

Padded elbows makes sense, but still, its a big gun for a small party.

And you agree the knee stomp is pretty tricky to train.

We both know that even in MMA circles, there’s the easy, middle and Hard Core crews that don’t go that extent, that don’t go hardcore in training. TCMA is no different.

When you talk about ‘theoretically’ what a top sport fighter might train, you can easilly speak ‘theoretically’ about how a TCMA should train, but the fact is, the reality is different.

Any good fighting style or MA will have ‘the deadly’ of their own design, which can’t be trained, even in hardcore sparring, without special accommodations.

MMA rules changed from the initial NHB days, for example.

So, how much different is TCMA really, in training concept. It may not be as efficient or accelerated, but at the same time, its less conventional.

87

[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1058217]Thanks for the reply Frost, I get what you are saying, and take it on board, but some of it is simply alternative training, with the same opportunities for success or failure, depending on the effort applied.

I disagree that bare knuckle fighting care is a timidity thing. You can’t hide behind your gear, you can hurt your hands, bunch of things.

Padded elbows makes sense, but still, its a big gun for a small party.

And you agree the knee stomp is pretty tricky to train.

We both know that even in MMA circles, there’s the easy, middle and Hard Core crews that don’t go that extent, that don’t go hardcore in training. TCMA is no different.

When you talk about ‘theoretically’ what a top sport fighter might train, you can easilly speak ‘theoretically’ about how a TCMA should train, but the fact is, the reality is different.

Any good fighting style or MA will have ‘the deadly’ of their own design, which can’t be trained, even in hardcore sparring, without special accommodations.

MMA rules changed from the initial NHB days, for example.

So, how much different is TCMA really, in training concept. It may not be as efficient or accelerated, but at the same time, its less conventional.[/QUOTE]

for me the gear thing is important i have sparred both ways and I know what allows me to train most realistically and with real power and pressure, and I know from watching clips of both which i feel works the best, and for self defence i would agree both are needed but I know which i’d place most emphesis on, but its
personal preference

In the end we train because we like it and want to, no amount of discussion will change that fact

88

[QUOTE=TenTigers;1058137]grabbing the head and ripping at anything and everything is dibilitating.
I don’t know if any of you recall “The shredder” dvd that was out awhile back. Pretty interesting. You could swear he studied Hung Kuen.[/QUOTE]

The “shredder” was pure nonsense.

So, maybe you’re right about him studying Hung Kuen.

89

[QUOTE=TenTigers;1058136]luckily, the Godz in their infinite wisdom have designed the human body to be disabled.
Eyes are only protected by a paper thin membrane, and are recessed in sockets, which act like a funnel, directing your finger into hem. In case you are slightly off-target, the nose guides you right back.
The throat is 3/4 exposed, the trachea being cartilige, and the vagus nerves, and carotid exposed. The back of the neck has the stem of the brain, base of skull, all good.
Turn your back on a fighter, and you are playing into his hands.
You are not a turtle.
The base of the skull, as mentioned before is prime target area.
The spine is completely exposed.(ever see someone bend over at the beach? (calm down..)you can count the vertebrea. Kidney, spleen, coccyx etc.
The testicles hang down between the legs-God forbid we get to have a skull there, right? And again, the legs guide your foot there if yuo happen to be lightly off target.[/QUOTE]

I am hoping that this was pure sarcasm.

Because, the Godz in their infinite wisdom sure made people gullible.

90

some people! pure idiots :rolleyes:

91

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1058362]I am hoping that this was pure sarcasm.

Because, the Godz in their infinite wisdom sure made people gullible.[/QUOTE]
the expert has spoken…LOL
(this is sarcasm…)

92

[QUOTE=TenTigers;1058380]the expert has spoken…LOL
(this is sarcasm…)[/QUOTE]

I don’t make any claims of expertise. But I do know from experience that the human body is very durable, tough, not easily "disabled. Your description of the eye, for instance, is utter nonsense. You might find a little research about the sclera, the TOUGH, white, outer part of the eye useful.

Moreover, I also know what people talk about poking the eyes, kicking the groin, and/or hitting the spine or throat as “disabling strikes” live in fantasy land.

93

[QUOTE=Frost;1058254]
In the end we train because we like it and want to, no amount of discussion will change that fact[/QUOTE]

I think in the final analysis, anybody with any experience knows that training is better than not training. Lots of mouth boxers miss this subtlety, as we all know. No dehydrated Kung Fu out there for instant reconstitution.

And, if you are not training in a way that personally motivates you , and keeps you firing, you will lose the battle in the long run. IF it is to be a lifetime pursuit, it has to be something that you love, that you can endure and that inspires you.

It changes too…

Gear is good, we’ve started adding more to our training, but its a rolling experiment right now…

94

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1058397]Moreover, I also know what people talk about poking the eyes, kicking the groin, and/or hitting the spine or throat as “disabling strikes” live in fantasy land.[/QUOTE]

ok, I’m not going to go back and forth with you, but I will say this.

I don’t claim to be a tough guy, just a guy. But I have been on the giving end as well as the recieving end of the above strikes,(except for giving the eye strike) and at least for me, they were disabling.
Eye strikes are excruciating-been there done that, had the lacerated cornia to prove it.
Base of the skull (back of the neck) strikes will drop you.
Groin kicks can buckle you over, put you to your knees, or on the floor in fetal position.
Sure, sometimes rage and/or adreneline can block out the pain momentarally.
I’ve dropped people with groin strikes, but I’ve also “snapped” after a particularly hard groin kick, only to crumble once I calmed down.(nice to know, at least)

I continued the match after the eye strike, but if there wasn’t a ref, It would’ve ended right then and there for me.

I was sparring my teacher,(I was a 20 yr old studying kenpo) who cross-kicked me in the shin, grabbed me by the hair and landed a knifehand to the base of my skull that dropped me face down on the floor. I was barely concious.
I dropped a guy twice my size with a similar strike. (ridgehand)
I don’t know what experience you have had with these strikes firsthand.
If you have been on the recieving end and it didn’t faze you-more power to you.
I will continue to practice them.

95

Eyes, throat, spine and throat, not disabling. Do tell…

Right now you sound like a major wanker…

96

[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1058414]Eyes, throat, spine and throat, not disabling. Do tell…

Right now you sound like a major wanker…[/QUOTE]

The wankers are those that believe IN disabling strikes.

97

Terrance, out of curiosity, where are the strikes targeted in Biu-Tze?

98

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1058416]The wankers are those that believe IN disabling strikes.[/QUOTE]

I can see you’ve never fought. Personally, I can disable a guy, dropped more guys than I can count.

Maybe you can use some training?

99

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1058397]hitting the throat as “disabling strikes” live in fantasy land.[/QUOTE]
You press on your opponent’s forehead to force his head to bend backward to expose his throat, you then use your palm edge to strike on his Adam apple. You should be able to drop your opponent.

100

Terrance, out of curiosity, where are the strikes targeted in Biu-Tze?

that’s right he practices wing chun huh?