Sports: In Judo you grab sleeve and collar. In actual fights, you may grab wrist, neck or upper arm.
Karate (Okinawa-te, from Southern Tiger Form) and TaiKwanDo are games with rules. The original fighting techniques and methods may differ. Now that kids around the world study and learn the sport versions and think they may take it to street. Is it a good idea?
Actual fights: Gong Fu. I was trained in actual fight. I have only scarce skills in sports versions. Recently, people and government in China try to convert Gong Fu into sports and make them into Olympics, such as San Sou (free hand, free styles), long boxing, souther boxing, staff, broad sword routines (like dance or gym routine), Tai Ji Push hands etc. Is it a good idea?
I was trained in Gonf Fu the traditional way which is to gain skills for the fight of your life. In old China, a gentleman has to study Wushu and medicine, so that you may treat illness and safe lives, so that you may defeat the bad guys and uphold the justice. Being a student of the ancient art, I feel like I am a dinosaur in a modern world. So the question is that should you train the old way or the sports way?
If you train the “old way” and have the skill, sport will be no problem… just do your thing but don’t kick in the balls or poke the eye.
I don’t train to compete, but compete. I’ve learned to avoid TKD tournaments because they are tooo sporty. Most kung fu tournaments would be only too glad to see someone come in, jam someone up, elbow them across the throte while placing a lead leg behind the guy and take him down.
Good Gung Fu is good Gung Fu no matter the road that leads you there.
in my opinion, it’s not the skills or techniques that are the problem, it’s the way the two schools of thought train. Most sport guys who train to compete, train hardcore, real hardcore, and are in better shape then those who train for self defense.
And how has that worked out for you? Do you have any feedback? I think that’s the problem with a lot of training methods. They’re self contained. You can develop skill in that training method (chisao, forms, shadowboxing, heavy bag work, etc.). But then we often make the mistake of extrapolating from that that we’re now skilled in fighting. But we often don’t have any feedback to confirm or deny that.
Then there’s the strength of the feedback. If you were trained in fighting, you’ve been attacked on the street, and you prevailed, then there’s not a whole lot of arguing with that. (Though people would probably want to know the circumstances. Numbers, skill levels, enebriation, etc.) Failing that (or in addition to it), experience in full-contact sparring using a decent range of techniques. Then on down the line. At the bottom of the feedback range, you’ve got all those drills and forms.
So what kind of feedback have you gotten?
(Please don’t take this as me calling you out. I’m just talking here.)
Originally posted by SPJ Sports: In Judo you grab sleeve and collar. In actual fights, you may grab wrist, neck or upper arm.
I think you’ll find that a lot of actual fights resemble what happens in hockey fights- lots of grabbing of clothes. That’s why training in the gi can be effective for street encounters. It helps you to learn how to use your opponent’s clothing (as well as your own) against him. It also teaches how to defend against grabbing of clothing.
I’m training classical karate which tends towards ending a fight before it goes very far and the training relects that. The more I train classically the more similarities I see with sport training.
Originally posted by SPJ Actual fights: Gong Fu. I was trained in actual fight.
How many actual fights have you been in? How many times have you trained against 100% resisting parters who are trying to take you out? The advantage to sports training is that is gives you experience trying to work your techniques at 100% against opponents who are doing the same.
Originally posted by Knifefighter How many actual fights have you been in? How many times have you trained against 100% resisting parters who are trying to take you out? The advantage to sports training is that is gives you experience trying to work your techniques at 100% against opponents who are doing the same.
So, when you punch someone in class KF, you hit them with 100%?
Re: Re: Re: Fighting VS Sports-a reverse technology
Originally posted by MasterKiller So, when you punch someone in class KF, you hit them with 100%?
Not always, but there are hard sparring days when you spar at pretty close to 100%. Grappling is almost always done at 100%, or close to. Competitions are always 100% and then some.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Fighting VS Sports-a reverse technology
Originally posted by Knifefighter Not always, but there are hard sparring days when you spar at pretty close to 100%. Grappling is almost always done at 100%, or close to. Competitions are always 100% and then some.
What’s the injury rate when you spar, with striking, at 100%
knifefighter, how many times have you been “tested” against a 100% resisting opponent who is going to take you down?
This assertion is pretty lame, but I’ve seen it repeated on this board often enough that maybe it needs to be addressed.
I spar, and we hit each other at varying degrees of ability from light -15% to hard about 70-80%. We hit the bag 100% and pads 100%. When we work on locks, breaks, we work at something less then 100%, why is that again? Oh yeah, because if I worked at 100% then I would be breaking and maiming my training partners.
Oh I’ve heard the claim that grapplers do it at 100% all the time too, and I might agree that they do it at 100% some of the time, but so does everyone else so let’s just stop spreading that crap around, eh knifefighter? Unless your regularly killing, maiming and otherwise doing bodily harm and recieving it in your school, you need to re-evaluate the way you look at that.
I’m going to go even ****her and say that training at 100% is almost a ridiculous idea anway, but it’s not necessary. Many drills, including sparring, and exercises are designed to get you as close as you can to training that 100% without killing or hurting each other. It’s one of those reality training falacies, if your not training HARDCORE!!! then you just can’t be successful at self defense or in the street.
Originally posted by red5angel When we work on locks, breaks, we work at something less then 100%, why is that again? Oh yeah, because if I worked at 100% then I would be breaking and maiming my training partners.
tapping is the trigger to stop… you are going 100% until you tap. There have been several instances of people getting hurt because they didn’t tap, both in class (not mine) and in competition.
Oh I’ve heard the claim that grapplers do it at 100% all the time too, and I might agree that they do it at 100% some of the time, but so does everyone else so let’s just stop spreading that crap around, eh knifefighter?
We go 100, unless told to do otherwise, or unless you’re grappling someone that you outclass and don’t need to go 100 on.
Unless your regularly killing, maiming and otherwise doing bodily harm and recieving it in your school, you need to re-evaluate the way you look at that.
Unless you are knocking your classmates on the ground, putting their mouth against a curb, and then kicking out their teeth, you are not, in any way shape or form, going 100%
