what will we do, brother joseph?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
21

but wait,

if jy’s father and chan heung were good friends, what happened to jeong yims father approaching chan heung after chan heung beat some german, cat to ask chan heung to teach. this came from you, back in the days.

so which is it, chan heung and his father were good friends, or was his father watching a match and was impressed with his abilities, so he approached chan heung.

now is jeong yims father jeong kwan, or is that his uncle? according to our story jeong yims parents were killed, and jeong kwan took him to chan heung.

joseph, i am open to hearing both sides of the story so i may have my own take on it. so, if i am wrong, show me my errors, and set me straight. but understand, i will dispute until proven undoubtedly.

because at the end of the day, there is only me out here working hard to try and research our history. wrong or not. earth was once thought to be flat. im going to be to one to prove the world is round.

see, i haven’t just researched my branch, but with whats available, i have also researched the chan and buk sing branches. so i am not only interested in my branch, but in the truth of clf as the way it should be. and if im wrong in the end, then so be it. its not like a death sentence. at least i would know the truth. regardless of whos wrong or right.

22

Wait a minute…

EJ, are you saying Chan family records say Chan Heung is the GGM? I thought recently Chan family stated Choy Fook was GGM?

Just want to know, maybe a mistake?

Joe

23

in theory i do get it.

in one sense, i see what you are saying. thats cool.

but on the other hand, no matter how much my sifu taught me, if i were sent to his teacher to complete my training, i would have a special relationship. one of a student, and one of a classmates since me and my teacher are now of the same teacher.

see, chan heung started him out, and according to our branch, chan heung sent him to the ggm. be it choy fook. according to our branch, jeong yim came back to chan heung after leaving the ggm.

now clf was not in its complete stage in 1836. it was only initated then. jeong yim came back to chan heung after learning new or different things from ggm, and since the two of them are now from the same teacher, i can see chan heung saying “what did sifu teach you.” and Jeong yim demonstrates. Chan heung perhaps felt that the stuff jeong yim learned was worth adding to the system chan heung already created.

this is where our version of the story comes in, together they add the new moves, and took the clf to new levels. this is where we of this branch say he became the co-founder, maybe on a smaller scale since chan heung already established clf so far by then. and this is why we get upset, because regardless of whom the real ggm is, and both sides now agree that he existed, our branch says jeong yim was kicked out, not by chan heung but by the elders in king mui.
chan heung sent him to the ggm.

i see both sides and i still feel the same.

24

Joe,

My mistake, Choy Fook was GGM, not Chan Heung.

EJ

25

whoa,

this is getting freaky.

who is the Green Grass Monk?

Choy Fook?

Chan Heung?

or Cai DeZhaong?

i thought the chan family had ggm down as choy fook?

maybe im wrong.

peace.

26

Wait I thought the GGM was Chan Siu Pang. :wink:

27

shhh,

don’t tell anyone else nole’. :mad:

28

Hi Frank,

Sorry about that mistake with Chan Heung being GGM. Here is my final reply to your question: what will we do, brother Joseph?

Jeong Yim was good, there is not doubt about it, and the Chan family and everyone acknowledged that. He was one of Chan Heung’s best and most trusted disciples, on par with his son Koon-Bak and his eldest disciple Lung Ji-Choy. Together, with many others of course, they built the foundation of CLF to make it what it is today.

Sure, he may have helped Chan Heung clarified a few things like Joe did with his teacher Lee Siu-Hung like he said, but he did not co-founded or co-created CLF, there was a clear lineage and a clear protocol. All these myth about him being thrown out of the King Mui Village and went to study with GGM and come back to show Chan Heung how to do it are just myths.

They were made up in the early 60’s as a result of the struggle between different sections of the CLF world in Hong Kong at that time. Don’t forget it was the time of the Cultural Revolution, there were great fights between the left and the right sides of the politics and there were riots and demonstrations all over Hong Kong. These political struggles also affected the lives of the CLF elders and they ended up taking sides against each other.

The left and the right used whatever that was available to fight each other and history is a powerful weapon. In order to weaken CLF as a potentially powerful political group (many of the CLF elders were ex- Nationalists), the people with vested interest tried to fragmentize the CLF fraternity with new myths and new stories to change history and to change allegiance, so the CLF practitioners would not stand together as a powerful group.

The Buk Sing group was always a little on their own but the Hung Sing group was strong at the time, so Jeong Yim and the GGM myth were used to pry us apart. Well, they have succeeded and their liars are still affecting us today.

Times are different now; what they did was necessary for the time, but for us the new generation, we should not be tied down with their liars and we should move on.

Cheers, I am definitely going before these posts become an addiction!

EJ

29

as I said before…

[B]If Jeong Yim learned from GGM (if Choy Fook or not) he would call GGM “Si-Gung” and Chan Heung would ask him what did “(my)Sifu, (your)Si-Gung teach you”

done. [/B]

30

Hey,

What do you think the history will sound like 100-150 yers from now?

Or for that matter, how will our generations be remembered???

Or our teachers…

Just a thought…

Joe

31

we have video, print distribution, photos and the internet.

32

Videos & Pics true…

But the stories of the people…

Unless they start some reality TV shows… (One of Li Siu Hung would be a ****er!!!)

But I have people ask me about things they have heard and its not even close to what is real in todays time…

Joe

Hey… maybe a new thread of future misconceptions of todays CLF players…

:stuck_out_tongue:

33

Hsk,
Are you tvl or is he your protege?
Someone’s way of talking and reasoning sounds familiar to someone else…doesn’t it?
Remember how you got kicked off the forum…then this “new member” appears on the scene who sounds and reasons like you? Something like “he made some very valid points”…how do you understand the concept of “valid” ?

From previous post:
" Today, 02:31 AM
tvl
Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2

Jane Hallander is a great author of CLF, part of the story came from her, she is resting in peace and i respect her life work on CLF…

tvl
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#14 Today, 02:35 AM
Kennyfist
Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 156

Yes, Jane Hallander was an author on CLF wasn’t she?..

Now that you brought up her name, don’t to typical HSK-effect and ignore relevant point…

WHERE DOES JANE HALLANDER MENTION THIS GGM LEGEND AND CHAN HEUNG’S GROUP KEPT QUIET ABOUT IT?..

DON’T TELL ME “BY WORD OF MOUTH” SHE SAID THIS AND THAT TO SO AND SO…

HINT: CLF BOOK REFUTING GGM LEGENT…AUTHORED BY DFW AND JANE HALLANDER !."

NOTE THE NAME JANE HALLENDAR !

34

Another thing,
tvl tells us something like blah blah pain and simple. ( (according?) to jane hallendar and then next post proceeds to tell us PART OF THE STORY comes “from her”…

he(?) sounds like you doesn’t he? Is tvl (or you? I wonder…) TAKING PART OF SOMEONE’S STORY AND REJECTING ANOTHER PART AT OWN LIBERTY TO FIT SOME “MODEL”…LIKE WHAT YOU DID WITH THE CHAN FAMILY RECORDS…(REMEMBER YOU TOLD US WHERE YOU GOT INFO ABOUT CHOY FOOK’S SCARRED HEAD? NOW YOU CLAIM JEONG IS TRUE FOUNDER OF CLF?)

BUT WAIT…TVL SAID JANE HALLENDAR IS AUTHOR ON CLF… WHERE IS IT MENTIONED BY JANE HALLENDAR ABOUT GGM STORY AND CHAN HEUNG GROUP QUIET ABOUT LEGEND?..

DID TVL (OR YOU, HSK?) IGNORE THE HINT ABOUT A CLF BOOK ASSOCIATED WITH JANE HALLENDAR ?

35

Another thing HSK,
are you back to making personal insults and threats?
Maybe you don’t realise that you are in a way digging your own grave by saying you represent blah blah “manager” and then proceed with abusive PM’s. personal attacks and threats…and BTW you are also in a way “ANSWERING” my questions by " SAYING A LOT" through AVOIDING THE QUESTIONS AND SILENCE.

IF YOU MAKE MORE FAULTY REASONINGS AND UNSUPPORTED CLAIMS…YOU DISPLAY MORE OF YOUR “SCHOLARSHIP” (OR LACK OF) ARE YOU STILL SOME SORT OF “OFFICIAL HISTORIAN”?

36

Hsk
Quote:"now, if the both of them claim to be the only outsider in chan heungs camp, and both sides name these two as “the” most outstanding student of chan heung. it is kind of hard not to think that they are not one and the same

This is getting funny…

Now if A says Pete sampras is the most oustanding tennis player of the 20th century… and B says Andre Aggassi is the most outstanding tennis player of the 20th century…

And both sides also claim BOTH ARE MEN and BOTH PLAY TENNIS and BOTH WERE ALIVE IN 20TH CENTURY quote: ."“it is kind of hard not to think that they are not one and the same.”

SO USING YOUR TYPE OF REASONING THEN PETE SAMPRAS = ANDRE AGASSI?

WHAT KIND OF EVIDENCE IS THAT? WHAT KIND OF REASONING?

IS THAT THE WHOLE OF YOUR “RESEARCH” FOR YOUR JEONG AND LONG CLAIM?

37

[size=4]hsk, Maybe You Need To Think Harder![/size]

38

Hsk,
Are you contradicting yourself again?

Quote:"it is kind of hard not to think that they are not one and the same.

39

oh, and Hsk where did the chan clan say that long Ji choy was " the only outsider"? You mean outsider as in not surnamed chan? Doesn’t the Chan Heung’s group say Jeong and Long are 2 different people and BOTH were Chan Heung’s students?

Can you point to where? You won’t get away with saying chan clan said “by word of mouth” this and that to so and so…who in the chan clan?

40

Keenyfist,

take a ritalin bro