[QUOTE=KPM;1270249]Very true Graham! Which is exactly the point I have tried to make on other threads about this being a discussion forum and not a youtube channel, and that to demand that people somehow prove that they are knowledgeable and capable is somewhat pointless.[/QUOTE]
KPM I am not demanding people prove how knowledgeable or capable they are I am saying that when people talk about things they are not really doing then they are just idly speculating. If you want to exchange idle speculation with others idly speculating that’s fine with me. It’s a free country with freedom of speech. Why get annoyed when some one points out that what you are doing is armchair idle speculation then? If you are an honest person I’d think you’d have no problem saying yeah it is just speculation.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1270247]Difficult to tell what people are really like until you meet them and impossible to tell how capable they are at expressing their MA.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=tc101;1270248] Training just increases your chances.[/QUOTE]
This is my thinking exactly but there is an argument that could mean practicing an MA may have negative consequences in the heat of the moment.
Our natural behaviour will always take priority if we are trying to avoid severe injury or death.
As an example a guy could try and be a hero because he practices MA and get himself into serious trouble. Untrained and scared he might just run away.
You see there are too many variables to find a positive answer to all this. The best we can do is to enjoy the experience of training and developing and should the need to use it arise the outcome will not be known until after.
…of course in competitions things are different. There are rules, regulations, judges and doctors all their to make decisions fair and help the injured. Also there is protective and padded equipment in play.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1270257][…] You see there are too many variables to find a positive answer to all this. The best we can do is to enjoy the experience of training and developing and should the need to use it arise the outcome will not be known until after[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=tc101;1270250]KPM I am not demanding people prove how knowledgeable or capable they are I am saying that when people talk about things they are not really doing then they are just idly speculating. If you want to exchange idle speculation with others idly speculating that’s fine with me. It’s a free country with freedom of speech. Why get annoyed when some one points out that what you are doing is armchair idle speculation then? If you are an honest person I’d think you’d have no problem saying yeah it is just speculation.[/QUOTE]
My point…is that you don’t know whether someone is “idling spectulating” or not just from a discussion forum. So what is the point in constantly saying the same **** thing over and over in every discussion? An honest person would just accept what people are saying at face value and realize that…again…Difficult to tell what people are really like until you meet them and impossible to tell how capable they are at expressing their MA.
[QUOTE=KPM;1270249]Very true Graham! Which is exactly the point I have tried to make on other threads about this being a discussion forum and not a youtube channel, and that to demand that people somehow prove that they are knowledgeable and capable is somewhat pointless.[/QUOTE]
But if said people are saying either
what you are doing in not wing chun it doesnt look like how wing chun should look when fighting ,
or
your training is incomplete and is missing the secret xxx that i have
then its up to those making the comments to show and prove their points otherwise why make them?
Show us what chun should look like in a fight, they should be be able to since they know what it shouldnt look like afterall
they should be able to show how more complete their art is with xxx added, not by endless posts or rants to a video recorder, but by showing us its results in fighting
[QUOTE=Graham H;1270247]Difficult to tell what people are really like until you meet them and impossible to tell how capable they are at expressing their MA.[/QUOTE]
Eh, in a few cases it’s pretty easy to spot who does & can do what they actually say and who doesn’t/can’t.
[QUOTE=KPM;1270261]My point…is that you don’t know whether someone is “idling spectulating” or not just from a discussion forum. So what is the point in constantly saying the same **** thing over and over in every discussion? An honest person would just accept what people are saying at face value and realize that…again…Difficult to tell what people are really like until you meet them and impossible to tell how capable they are at expressing their MA.[/QUOTE]
Actually it is fairly easy to tell who is doing it and who is idly speculating. For example going back to your control the opponents center of gravity idea that is idle speculation. I even asked you are you doing that in sparring? And you’re not. I asked if you could point me to any videos of some one doing it and not just for a split second per chance in fighting or sparring and you couldn’t. You could show me demos and provide things others have said but that is not convincing since anyone can demo anything and anyone can say anything. You are not talking from direct knowledge.
You see you are not saying do this because I am doing it and it works and you are not saying do this here are people doing it and it works. Everything else is speculation. If you don’t really know something can’t you just be honest and say so?
Now why is Alan Orr saying do this or that? And btw do you notice he never says his is the only or best way or that you should do it his way? Because he and his guys are doing it.
I do not accept what people are saying at face value. That is what gullible people do. Sensible people run everything they hear through their BS meter and their experience to evaluate it.
Yes I agree that it can be difficult to know what someone is capable of or their skill level based solely on what people say but on the other hand some people can say things that can give you a really really good idea of their experience level and likely abilities. People who argue for example that sparring is not absolutely critical to fighting skill development are telling me they have not sparred and so can not have developed much fighting skill.
Actually it is fairly easy to tell who is doing it and who is idly speculating. For example going back to your control the opponents center of gravity idea that is idle speculation. I even asked you are you doing that in sparring? And you’re not. I asked if you could point me to any videos of some one doing it and not just for a split second per chance in fighting or sparring and you couldn’t. You could show me demos and provide things others have said but that is not convincing since anyone can demo anything and anyone can say anything. You are not talking from direct knowledge.
Absolutely anyone can say and demo anything! Hence my point that you can’t really know what they are capable of unless you meet them face to face! You just stated my point for me, but you still refuse to “get it”! As far as “idle speculation” about controlling someone’s center of gravity, would you be saying that if it was Alan Orr rather than little ole me? Because he teaches this. Its in his videos. And I am doing it in sparring. And no, I’m not going to shoot a video of it just for you.
You’ve just proven to me that it is pointless to engage you in any kind of discussion. You don’t really have anything of value to say. The only input you have is that people aren’t training realistically and aren’t “doing”, and can’t really use their Wing Chun. Yet you yourself don’t post any videos showing you “doing” or “sparring” or even “training realistically” and you have very little to say of how to do any of it rather than to tell people to go to a boxing gym. Any discussion with you just ends in frustration. You aren’t worth talking to.
And I don’t believe you when you say you are interested in other people’s Wing Chun. I think you are only interested in arguing.
So, from here on out I am igoring you as much as possible. I know you could care less and will say “good riddance.” But if everyone stopped responding to your mantra, then you wouldn’t have anyone to talk you, now would you?
[QUOTE=Graham H;1270258]…of course in competitions things are different. There are rules, regulations, judges and doctors all their to make decisions fair and help the injured. Also there is protective and padded equipment in play.[/QUOTE]
Quite correct, it is a level playing field (as much as it can be) which means if you can’t do well there, you have even LESS chances on the street where there are no rules.
Catch wrestling for me has been a tremendous compliment to wing chun. Once the distance is closed/crashed/compromised CACC is effective at answering those types of questions. It is messy, brutal and friggin great fun too. CACC also diminshes any ideas you have about ego which is humbling and essential for growth.
[QUOTE=KPM;1270281][B]And I don’t believe you when you say you are interested in other people’s Wing Chun. I think you are only interested in arguing.
So, from here on out I am igoring you as much as possible. [/QUOTE]
KPM, why can’t you accept that other people are entitled to strong opinions that you do not agree with? I mean Twen frequently states 1. He is skeptical of any claims not backed up by sparring or fighting, and 2. he believes that sparring is absolutely essential to developing realistic skill. Those are totally legit points of view. I may not agree 100%, but I’m not going to argue with him. Personally, I think he does a very fair job of representing his perspective, and it’s a point of view that needs to be heard.
[QUOTE=Grumblegeezer;1270286]KPM, why can’t you accept that other people are entitled to strong opinions that you do not agree with? I mean Twen frequently states 1. He is skeptical of any claims not backed up by sparring or fighting, and 2. he believes that sparring is absolutely essential to developing realistic skill. Those are totally legit points of view. I may not agree 100%, but I’m not going to argue with him. Personally, I think he does a very fair job of representing his perspective, and it’s a point of view that needs to be heard.[/QUOTE]
Except that he repeats that point of view over and over on every thread. Don’t you get tired of hearing it? And if he is going to direct that strong opinion at me, then yes I am goint to disagree with him. The guy has a one-track mind. But it doesn’t matter at this point. I have him on my “ignore” list. Problem solved!
There are a lot of great points about the thread’s subject matter, and I again thank everyone so far for contributing their opinions and thoughts on the subject.
There is so much I need to learn in WC, and I do know it is very important to be skilled in one art, than to mix or match too many and not master any of them. Again I thank you guys, now I am off to re read Wing Chun by J.Y Lee. Thanks fellas
[QUOTE=KPM;1270292]Except that he repeats that point of view over and over on every thread. Don’t you get tired of hearing it? And if he is going to direct that strong opinion at me, then yes I am goint to disagree with him. The guy has a one-track mind. But it doesn’t matter at this point. I have him on my “ignore” list. Problem solved! ;)[/QUOTE]
KPM I get tired of hearing your POV also lol and since you give your view on every thread why can’t I give mine?
I am interested in more than just fighting, I am very interested in the various lineage models of wing chun. The unfortunate thing is people usually can’t say this is how we train, these are the exercises we do, and so forth they often try to justify what they are doing with references to fighting or application and that I think is a problem if they are not doing it.
[QUOTE=Grumblegeezer;1270286]KPM, why can’t you accept that other people are entitled to strong opinions that you do not agree with? I mean Twen frequently states 1. He is skeptical of any claims not backed up by sparring or fighting, and 2. he believes that sparring is absolutely essential to developing realistic skill. Those are totally legit points of view. I may not agree 100%, but I’m not going to argue with him. Personally, I think he does a very fair job of representing his perspective, and it’s a point of view that needs to be heard.[/QUOTE]
In many cases it’s a valid point. Problem is, Twenty repeats the same thing in response to almost everyone regardless of what their comment even is and even if it’s not immediately relevant to the topic at hand. It becomes rather condescending the way he tells everyone “if you were actually…”.
I actually have one recommendation on a style that would be absolutely the best to mix with Wing Chun.
I know most of you are going to guess BJJ, or wrestling, or MMA. But no it’s not any of these.
What style would be best to mix?
A “sense of humor” style. Especially when looking in the mirror. I think an engine built on that will lift you up far above other engines. I mean that engine would even withstand Obasi grabbing your wrists during chi sau and posting the vid on the internets.
[QUOTE=KPM;1270292]Except that he repeats that point of view over and over on every thread. Don’t you get tired of hearing it? And if he is going to direct that strong opinion at me, then yes I am goint to disagree with him. The guy has a one-track mind. But it doesn’t matter at this point. I have him on my “ignore” list. Problem solved! ;)[/QUOTE]
So what you are saying is, you only disagree with him because he repeats his opinion and it’s a ‘strong’ opinion, and not necessarily because you feel he is wrong? That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Curious if you take this view with everyone that has strong beliefs in their views. If so, doesn’t sound like you are very open minded (no offense intended)
Personally, yeah, it gets tiring hearing this ‘T’ repeat the exact same mantras as the old ‘T’ did (but I admit this T is a lot more subdued). But, I don’t see him as necessarily wrong in a lot of cases either, regardless of the tiring repetition. They both share a lot of similar points that ring true if someone has actually put in the work he’s talking about.
