lolololololol
good mix
Wing Chun dovetails nicely with Tibetan White Crane. The attack hands are the same and SLT is a nice, short bridge form for training the eating crane fist.
[QUOTE=jhexx;1270083]I would like to hear what others opinions are on this subject, as I have been debating and researching as to what other fighting style would be a good advantage to have in this modern day! I read Bjj is great to add, and I have been researching to see what options are there that matches and flows with WC. I would love to hear others opinions on this subject. :)[/QUOTE]
It would depend on what stage you are in your development.
I wouldn’t add another striking art for obvious reasons.
Many times it isn’t a question of mixing a style with WC but simply cross TESTING WC VS other systems.
Sometimes the solution to the puzzle of another system is simply to fight it and find out what works.
That said, no style is complete so to mix into it things that you know are lacking to make yourself a more rounded fighter, is not a bad thing.
Just make sure your core is solid.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1270158]
Many times it isn’t a question of mixing a style with WC but simply cross TESTING WC VS other systems.[/QUOTE]
In what context? You mean in competition? How can you test Ving Tsun in a street fight when you don’t know anything about your attacker? If you wish to cover every single outcome you will be disappointed. Its not possible. Victory depends on too many things to think that your great VTBJJ will help you in real life. Maybe all you need is a powerful punch or maybe all you need is a cloaking device :rolleyes:. It really is stupid discussion.
IMO Ving Tsun is a pretty useless competition style. You can see this when you look at competitions when both participants are just trying to chain punch each others head off. When they realise that is not working they are already tired and it ends up in some sort of messy grabbing kick boxing farce. In competition both fighters are conditioned and prepared to fight. That already makes things hard. If it were me I would go and train specifically for the type of competition. In most cases specifically MMA because they train to be well rounded fighters. What is the point in mixing VT with anything???
If you think a pak sau and a few chain punches will win in the Octagon you would be wrong. Many WC lineages don’t even train to fight. They have some sort of BS Tai Chi soft yeilding woman arrogance thinking they can adapt their WC to anything. Soft touching arms forward and backwards around and around. It’s nonsense. Any decent well conditioned fighter would destroy your average WC guy. Fact!
Now if you have somebody that is well conditioned. Has a strategy, timing, focus and precision. Can recognize and find chances. Has good striking power and courage then in the street VT is pretty useful. In an MMA bout where the other guy also has these attributes but can Box, Thai box, shoot fight, BJJ and just likes to kick butt you tell me who is more likely to win? The MMA guy? You may be right but what if the VT guy lands the first shot and knocks him clean out? What can he do then?
Too many variables. Practice one thing well and leave the rest to the dreamers…
TCMA Di Sha Shou http://www.kungfulibrary.com/shaolin-chin-na.htm
[QUOTE=Graham H;1270163]In what context? You mean in competition? How can you test Ving Tsun in a street fight when you don’t know anything about your attacker? If you wish to cover every single outcome you will be disappointed. Its not possible. Victory depends on too many things to think that your great VTBJJ will help you in real life. Maybe all you need is a powerful punch or maybe all you need is a cloaking device :rolleyes:. It really is stupid discussion.
IMO Ving Tsun is a pretty useless competition style. You can see this when you look at competitions when both participants are just trying to chain punch each others head off. When they realise that is not working they are already tired and it ends up in some sort of messy grabbing kick boxing farce. In competition both fighters are conditioned and prepared to fight. That already makes things hard. If it were me I would go and train specifically for the type of competition. In most cases specifically MMA because they train to be well rounded fighters. What is the point in mixing VT with anything???
If you think a pak sau and a few chain punches will win in the Octagon you would be wrong. Many WC lineages don’t even train to fight. They have some sort of BS Tai Chi soft yeilding woman arrogance thinking they can adapt their WC to anything. Soft touching arms forward and backwards around and around. It’s nonsense. Any decent well conditioned fighter would destroy your average WC guy. Fact!
Now if you have somebody that is well conditioned. Has a strategy, timing, focus and precision. Can recognize and find chances. Has good striking power and courage then in the street VT is pretty useful. In an MMA bout where the other guy also has these attributes but can Box, Thai box, shoot fight, BJJ and just likes to kick butt you tell me who is more likely to win? The MMA guy? You may be right but what if the VT guy lands the first shot and knocks him clean out? What can he do then?
Too many variables. Practice one thing well and leave the rest to the dreamers…[/QUOTE]
No, not competition per say, but simply by fighting other fighters from other systems like, gasp, has been done through the ages in TCMA.
Its not a revolutionary idea but tradition in MA.
Sometimes the cross testing was via a challenge and other times via friendly sparring.
The point is to get OUT of your comfort zone ( WC VS WC with your buddies) and try it out VS things you do NOT get exposed to every day.
No one advocates getting in to a fight in the street to test your WC.
But if you don’t test it, what makes you think it works?
Closed, cooperative, friendly sparring in the class with your fellow WC students?
In the beginning stages sure, BUT if you really want to test your WC one of the best ways is to cross test.
Of course if you don’t see the value of testing your WC, that’s fine too.
[QUOTE=jhexx;1270083]I would like to hear what others opinions are on this subject, as I have been debating and researching as to what other fighting style would be a good advantage to have in this modern day! I read Bjj is great to add, and I have been researching to see what options are there that matches and flows with WC. I would love to hear others opinions on this subject. :)[/QUOTE]
My first question would be WHY someone wants to mix in something else?
My second would be, how long have you been training WC and have you completed the basic ideas of system? (And I’m not really talking about, have you learned all of the forms, dummy, and weapons, but the core concepts of WC)
I ask because, if someone is thinking “man, I have holes in my wing chun - I need to add something else in”, but haven’t even finished the system, or have only been training 6 months or a year, when then I’d say sure you’re going to have holes! Besides that, I don’t look at WC as a style. It’s a principle based fighting art. Once the WC principles & concepts have been learned and started to be internalized, then it isn’t a matter of ‘what next?’. At that point, it’s really about understanding what works best & most efficient at any given time - regardless the technique you learned or mixed in from some other style. WC’s principle based method of fighting is to move beyond that anyway.
And to agree with a previous post, once you get to the point you are comfortable with these things, it’s then really about pressure testing. If things start falling apart (and they should if you are training against people better than you), then it’s more of an experience thing vs ‘my art doesn’t work’. And then, there’s the chance that you had a lousy teacher and yeah, it’s probably a good idea to move on and find another teacher
My first question is: WHY would someone not want to mix a two art style with another style, traditionally speaking, of course?
[QUOTE=PalmStriker;1270179] My first question is: WHY would someone not want to mix a two art style with another style, traditionally speaking, of course?[/QUOTE]
Mix WC with a lesser art? Gasp!!! That’s just wrong!–Sheesh!
Ok, seriously now, Sticking to “pure” WC is fine. You can do a lot with that alone. Cross-training is also fine. It really comes down to what you want to do. Heck, I bought a unicycle a couple of years back and had a ball with it. I think people need to lighten up a bit around here.
Now to respond to the OP, I enjoy Eskrima and if I were younger, I would work more on grappling (by which I mean working from the clinch, throwing and groundwork). Those are choices that I feel complement rather than contradict my WC. And, if like me, WC has become your core art, I would seek out trainers or coaches in whatever other arts you choose who are amenable to cross-training and will help you integrate what you learn without watering down your WC.
And finally, whether you cross-train or not, testing your art against others who train other things, like Sanjuro Ronin advised, is not only good for your own development, it’s fun.
[QUOTE=Grumblegeezer;1270185]Mix WC with a lesser art? Gasp!!! That’s just wrong!–Sheesh!
Ok, seriously now, Sticking to “pure” WC is fine. You can do a lot with that alone. Cross-training is also fine. It really comes down to what you want to do. Heck, I bought a unicycle a couple of years back and had a ball with it. I think people need to lighten up a bit around here.
Now to respond to the OP, I enjoy Eskrima and if I were younger, I would work more on grappling (by which I mean working from the clinch, throwing and groundwork). Those are choices that I feel complement rather than contradict my WC. And, if like me, WC has become your core art, I would seek out trainers or coaches in whatever other arts you choose who are amenable to cross-training and will help you integrate what you learn without watering down your WC.
And finally, whether you cross-train or not, testing your art against others who train other things, like Sanjuro Ronin advised, is not only good for your own development, it’s fun.[/QUOTE]
I do test my wing chun against different kinds of styles and learn how to handle them.
I find that my wing chun platform suits me fine. I think it is a complete art comparatively speaking.
If one sticks with a good version of it you can become quite versatile…even if you find yourself on the ground.
There are lots of recovery concepts in wing chun,
But i dont criticize anyone who learns other styles for their own reasons..
[QUOTE=Frost;1270142]Oh you had to go there didn’t you!
Im actually glad Grahams posted a few times, I miss his posts and glad his training is going well, if you post the clip of yourself in a master boxing match Ill post a clip of myself in my next masters judo comp lol[/QUOTE]
Yeh, graham was always alright… For a wanker lol
Done deal on the clip
I appreciate the time everyone took to read and then reply to my post. I don’t think I lack at the point I am at in WC, I still have a lot to learn, but before I went into a traditional school that offered the Jiu Wan WC version, My father taught me a decent amount of WSL version as well. As far as the Jiu Wan version, I literally started it about 4 months ago, but because I moved to another state, I was not able to continue training with my sifu, Herb Schmeider, and I would like to continue the same style, but no one around the Colorado area I know of teaches that version, public or private that I know of. I am just a baby in it, yellow status. When my father taught me what he learned, I learned a bit started when I was 3 or 4 years old. I learned the first form for both versions, but have not got to Chum Kiu/ Biu Jee. When my father taught he was not into colors or status, he just taught me actual applications and some chi sao and sparred quite a bit. With training with him over the years it was on and off due to me being partly lazy and not taking it as serious as I should have up to age 22, as well as my parents moving to another state during which in those 4 years I was not able to go and see him to continue training. I restarted Training WC going full blast into it as of end of 2012 with my father.
At the suggestion of my father after 1 year of hard training and conditioning from end of 2012- 2013 with mostly the basics and some chi sao as well as the theories, he suggested I should go to a traditional school and learn from the ground up to strengthen my WC. So I had joined The South Florida Wing Chun academy where Sifu Herb taught us. It was a great school and the students were very good to get along with, and we would spar from time to time, do drills etc. I earned my yellow in less than 3 months. My sifu mentioned I was a bit more advanced than most that started with him, which I credit to my father’s teaching. But because I had to move to CO due to family reasons, I was not able to continue as much as I wanted to. My goal is to become certified in WC one day, no matter how long it takes me to reach it, it is a personal goal of mine.
After reading how others integrate at least one more style only to have the ability to switch from one to another on the fly I was only curious about this information , hence my post.
I do know that WC is and will be my core style, but even my father said it is good to learn other arts here and there, just make sure you have one that you rely and know very well before you add anything, and I agree with some of the sentiments in this thread. So what I been doing is just training every other day about 2 hrs a training day, 3 to 4 times a week everything my sifu has taught me up to where I am at now, only thing I don’t know anyone to chi sao with so that sucks 
I believe that sparring is a very great way to understand and become more versatile with WC applications. Maybe I should shadow box a bit more, and try to find others to spar with, but that will take a bit of time, as I do not know anyone out here that I can train with
Thank you again everyone, I appreciate the opinions and comments!
Said HybridWarrior:
trying to dabble in several is not optimal IMO.
Bit ironic with that screen name, bro.
Some people go into Wing Chun because they fervently believe it to be the supreme ultimate fighting style and you really need to be the deadliest fighter possible. If this is you, you probably want to pursue it alone.
If you don’t believe that, then you might want to look at other systems as well.
A lot of Wing Chun guys do arnis or Escrima. Others do BJJ, Judo, and grappling arts.
If you want to become a fully rounded fighter, you should explore standup (boxing, kickboxing, Kung Fu, karate, MT, etc.), clinch (judo, wrestling, etc.), and groundfighting (BJJ and judo).
It depends what you want to do. If something looks interesting, go check it out. Life is about discovery and following your interests. Not doing what someone else says you should do.
Personally I started with a guy who taught a very effective mix of Wing Chun, Choy Li Fut, and Northern Sil Lum. He showed me that the concept of pure arts being the most effective was not true. Every art needs to evolve.
Currently I’m training nearly all BJJ because to me it the most interesting MA I’ve come across, and is evolving all the time. With some WC just to keep the pugilistic skills up.
I don’t believe in trying to blend arts, though. I used to think my WC history would make it easier for me to learn BJJ, and that I could use “WC principles” to learn BJJ faster, but I realised that would not work at around blue belt level. You have to approach each art with a clean slate.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1270204]Yeh, graham was always alright… For a wanker lol
Done deal on the clip[/QUOTE]
When you are old being known as a w@nker isn’t so bad! 
As for the current topic I believe that a lot of people cross train WC because the WC is poor or incorrect. That is based on my experience and I have had a lot of it.
Anyway styles don’t make fighters and as I have said many times before the scariest people I know don’t even do MA so sometimes the bubble needs to be burst.
Everything really depends on the individuals, the time, the place, the surroundings. These kind of things determine the outcome of a fight. In competition the participants are matched very even. In real life they are not.
In the past I have seen people get KTFO who have had a reputation as being handy MAist’s by just your average drunk Joe outside a bar so I don’t really believe that any style is perfect. It’s the person.
As most of us on this forum are pretty invisible to each other it’s completely possible that the biggest idiot on here (no names) could kick all our asses. Who know’s? Who cares?
the biggest idiot on here (no names)
Man, the list of contenders is a long one.
[QUOTE=anerlich;1270239]Man, the list of contenders is a long one.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. It includes essentially anyone that takes their time to post here!
[QUOTE=KPM;1270241]Yeah. It includes essentially anyone that takes their time to post here![/QUOTE]
Difficult to tell what people are really like until you meet them and impossible to tell how capable they are at expressing their MA.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1270234]When you are old being known as a w@nker isn’t so bad!
As for the current topic I believe that a lot of people cross train WC because the WC is poor or incorrect. That is based on my experience and I have had a lot of it.
Anyway styles don’t make fighters and as I have said many times before the scariest people I know don’t even do MA so sometimes the bubble needs to be burst.
Everything really depends on the individuals, the time, the place, the surroundings. These kind of things determine the outcome of a fight. In competition the participants are matched very even. In real life they are not.
In the past I have seen people get KTFO who have had a reputation as being handy MAist’s by just your average drunk Joe outside a bar so I don’t really believe that any style is perfect. It’s the person.
As most of us on this forum are pretty invisible to each other it’s completely possible that the biggest idiot on here (no names) could kick all our asses. Who know’s? Who cares?[/QUOTE]
People so call cross train for all kinds of different reasons. I think the real question isn’t the cross part but the training part.
You seem to me to be suggesting that training doesn’t matter that there are scary people who haven’t trained (true) that all kinds of variables come into play in a street fight (also true) and that trained people have been beaten by untrained people (true). You are also right that it is the person not the style.
The conclusion to all this is to be the best most prepared person you can. The better prepared you are the better your chances to prevail. This is where training comes in. Real training improves the person. Conditioning improves your ability to perform and in fact your performance ability in fighting is dictated by your conditioning level. Skill training hones your ability to fight. There are never guarantees only chances this is true on the street and also in competition. Training just increases your chances.
Yes competition fighting is not street assaults. This does not mean competition fighting is not important. Yes you are evenly matched in weight experience and so forth. Yes there are rules. But to focus on the constraints of competition misses the bigger picture. Guys who have actually fought in competition see that bigger picture. The bigger picture is that competition fighting allows you to really and legally use your training to fight against someone really fighting you back.
Sparring and competition is the way we can lawfully practice really using our skills and by really I mean for real that is to really punch your opponent really choke him really take him down really kick him with all your power and so forth and to really deal with him trying to do the same. From doing this we see how things really work for ourselves as individuals how to really do thing and put them together for ourselves. There is no guess work or speculation or theory to it.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1270247]Difficult to tell what people are really like until you meet them and impossible to tell how capable they are at expressing their MA.[/QUOTE]
Very true Graham! Which is exactly the point I have tried to make on other threads about this being a discussion forum and not a youtube channel, and that to demand that people somehow prove that they are knowledgeable and capable is somewhat pointless.