http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7YRvrB0gHA
now sure the head movement is exaggerated
but if u changed that who else thinks this set is just as good if not better than most ???
Unfortunately, this is yet another example of modern Wushu BS. I have a friend who does traditional Fanzi from Beijing with a verifiable lineage. It’s nothing like this carp.
Being fast or moving fast in Fanzi isn’t about frailing around like a mad person. This is just a dance and an insult to the traditional stuff.
Mantis108
This would be more like the traditional styles (not the same but …) that I am talking about:
Mantis108
how many of her strikes do you think would bounce off you?
im betting most if not all
she was a championship fanzi boxer for modern wushu. as for it resembling traditional i have never seen traditional fanzi, most of them dont represent it. even the mantis ;). er the long fist used to a bit.
edit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkf04dnaLvE does this resembel the real toad kung fu?
[QUOTE=mantis108;752370]This would be more like the traditional styles (not the same but …) that I am talking about:
Mantis108[/QUOTE]
nice, i like i like 
[QUOTE=mantis108;752370]This would be more like the traditional styles (not the same but …) that I am talking about:
Mantis108[/QUOTE]
thats got a bit of a wushu thing goin on there
even a break dance step or 2
have u seen the 4 or 5 long chuo jiao vids i posted on the sticky
INSANE! lol
take a look
as for the girl u gotta admire her speed no and i saw some legitamate strikes in there aswell
done slower and without the whole head whipping thing
what then ?
I am sorry, Wushu Champion means d!ck all to me. Anybody can be a wushu champion as long as he or she has a good report with the judges panel or well connected in the community. The thing with this so called Fanzi boxing “champion” is that if you take away her supposed speed and agility, which is not that great or impressive either, she has nothing left in her form. Nothing in her form, especially the way she does it, can translate into real technique let alone allowing her do fajing and strike properly.
Wushu Champion, a dime a dozen, big freak’n deal. (sorry if I offended anyone but that’s just the honest truth).
Mantis108
In what sense do you mean that this set is “better than most?” Where is this value judgment coming from?
speed wise intent wise
i see a whole load of forms (southern sets especcially) where performeers just go through the motions and never really put anything that i coulod see working in there
[QUOTE=golden arhat;752379]thats got a bit of a wushu thing goin on there
even a break dance step or 2
have u seen the 4 or 5 long chuo jiao vids i posted on the sticky
INSANE! lol
take a look
as for the girl u gotta admire her speed no and i saw some legitamate strikes in there aswell
done slower and without the whole head whipping thing
what then ?[/QUOTE]
Well, if you feel subjectively positive about wushu BS is going to help to attain high level of CMA, by all means it’s your right.
As for break dancing move, I suppose you are talking about the 0.08 s into the clip. But check out this 8 years old kid doing MMA. Look at how he does the same kick from the ground as he pops up from a defensive ground position.
[URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP_HlNGfcR4”]
8 Years only MMA clip
The kid might not be a fast as the Fanzi champion but I would put my house on the kid that he would mop the floor with the lady in a fight any day.
At the end of the day, don’t get all hype up by the modern Wushu champion bu ll Sh!t. My take is keep things real.
Regards
Mantis108
[QUOTE=mantis108;752388]Well, if you feel subjectively positive about wushu BS is going to help to attain high level of CMA, by all means it’s your right.
As for break dancing move, I suppose you are talking about the 0.08 s into the clip. But check out this 8 years old kid doing MMA. Look at how he does the same kick from the ground as he pops up from a defensive ground position.
[URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP_HlNGfcR4”]
8 Years only MMA clip
The kid might not be a fast as the Fanzi champion but I would put my house on the kid that he would mop the floor with the lady in a fight any day.
At the end of the day, don’t get all hype up by the modern Wushu champion bu ll Sh!t. My take is keep things real.
Regards
Mantis108[/QUOTE]
8 yr old vs fanzi champ. lets see it.
[QUOTE=golden arhat;752387]speed wise intent wise [/QUOTE]
So it’s the performance you’re referring to rather than the choreography? Fair enough. I’d agree that her performance is very good. What’s the purpose of pointing that out?
The value of the forms is for “teaching” and “learning” only, it’s not for “practicing” and “pleasing the judges and audience”.
Modern Wushu
I have seen a lot of contemporary wushu and each time I see it, I appreciate it for what it is. Gymnastics with just a hint of martial like movements and postures. I note that the martial-moves seem to reduce each year. I always admire their athleticism, agility and co-ordination. Has pretty much nothing in common with my Kung Fu however.
I was at the Wong Fei Hong/ Yim Man memorial in Fatsan in January and noticed they now have a lion dance and martial art demonstration. Being a Hung Gar guy, I was dead keen to see some Gung Gi, Fu Hok etc.
Disappointed is an understatement. These guys busted out some modern wushu form, akin to this woman’s demo. Heck, their wushu was not even that good. We’d just come from Tianjin Chin Woo and seen some absolutely amazing Wushu.
Of all places to see modern wushu, the Wong Fei Hong memorial museum.
Disappointed, my sifu, sibak and I approached the guys after they had finished to see if they actually knew any Hung Gar. None whatsoever. Told us that the visitors don’t appreciate it as much as modern wushu. Hang on…most visitors know who WFH was, are probably there cause of the WFH connection and that he was a Hung Gar master…would they not want to see Hung Gar instead of modern wushu.
I am still livered at this however there is a happy ending to this tale. Turns out that their Si Hing did know some Hung Gar stuff and he was nice enough to come out of the ‘office’ and demo for us. He was pretty sharp too.
8 Years only MMA clip
The kid might not be a fast as the Fanzi champion but I would put my house on the kid that he would mop the floor with the lady in a fight any day.
At the end of the day, don’t get all hype up by the modern Wushu champion bu ll Sh!t. My take is keep things real.
Conversely I would bet my house that the kid could probably take on your average coffee shop smack talking trad. kung fu master.
Difference the girl doesn’t make any claims of being able to fight, she’s a wushu athlete trained for performance / sport wushu.
Keep it real indeed! :eek:
Hi Firepalm,
[QUOTE=firepalm;752489]Conversely I would bet my house that the kid could probably take on your average coffee shop smack talking trad. kung fu master.
Difference the girl doesn’t make any claims of being able to fight, she’s a wushu athlete trained for performance / sport wushu.
Keep it real indeed! :eek:[/QUOTE]
Fair enough and be that as it may, there is one huge difference.
The kid represent MMA as the clip claims and he did what most people understood as descent representation with relatively great MMA skill set.
While this lady makes no claims, since there is no narrative of any kind, we all understood this is a modern wushu tournament. Modern wushu by default is the representation of CMA because the PROC said so! The world (mostly those who don’t take CMA) equates CMA with modern wushu. Read a few reply back of the experience of the Hung Gar person who saw modern wushu in a traditional HG! Everyone is rushing to includ silly BS into traditional style nowadays. The lady needs not to make any claim. She is by default deemed as a bench mark of CMA! But is what she did really a bench mark of CMA and most importantly TCMA style such Fanziquan? Absolutely NOT!!!
Do you really believe that is not important? Do you realized that Fanziquan was one of the styles used to train the Ming dynasty army that defeated the Japanese pirate invasation? This is recorded in military manuscripts. It is real history. Can you imagine the army doing this modern wushu crazy Shiat!? Not even the PROC army corp would do this! If we are TCMA practitioners and we are proud of the fact that we practice Wude (martial virtues), which inclues honoring and respecting of our true heritage, you would want to acknowledge the modern wushu fantasy carp altering and discrediting a real Kung Fu style such as Fanziquan? Think of all those who dedicated their lives to defend and uphold the honor and grace of China (cultural identity included) in the past. A man without understanding and honoring the past has no future. Simply put, there is no dignity in being a “modern wushu champion” such as she at all! The stars of moder wushu would soon be “media w h o r e” once 2008 Olympics is held in Beijing. I am sorry I would have to wonder if you are at all a TCMA practitioner with the well being of TCMA at heart?!
If you understood all these, weighted the situation and you feel fine or see nothing wrong with that, then we obviously don’t share the same moral values. We will just have to agree to disagree. But please understand that I don’t mean any of my posts to be disrepectful to anyone. I just hate modern wushu with passion that’s all (within reason of course).
Anyway, I can only hope to keep fighting for TCMA and keep educating people about the difference. I know it’s a ever losing battle with the modern wushu crap but I am going do it for as long as I can because it is a cause worth fighting for.
Regards
Mantis108
[QUOTE=mantis108;752664]Fair enough and be that as it may, there is one huge difference.
The kid represent MMA as the clip claims and he did what most people understood as descent representation with relatively great MMA skill set.
While this lady makes no claims, since there is no narrative of any kind, we all understood this is a modern wushu tournament. Modern wushu by default is the representation of CMA because the PROC said so! The world (mostly those who don’t take CMA) equates CMA with modern wushu. Read a few reply back of the experience of the Hung Gar person who saw modern wushu in a traditional HG! Everyone is rushing to includ silly BS into traditional style nowadays. The lady needs not to make any claim. She is by default deemed as a bench mark of CMA! But is what she did really a bench mark of CMA and most importantly TCMA style such Fanziquan? Absolutely NOT!!!
Do you really believe that is not important? Do you realized that Fanziquan was one of the styles used to train the Ming dynasty army that defeated the Japanese pirate invasation? This is recorded in military manuscripts. It is real history. Can you imagine the army doing this modern wushu crazy Shiat!? Not even the PROC army corp would do this! If we are TCMA practitioners and we are proud of the fact that we practice Wude (martial virtues), which inclues honoring and respecting of our true heritage, you would want to acknowledge the modern wushu fantasy carp altering and discrediting a real Kung Fu style such as Fanziquan? Think of all those who dedicated their lives to defend and uphold the honor and grace of China (cultural identity included) in the past. A man without understanding and honoring the past has no future. Simply put, there is no dignity in being a “modern wushu champion” such as she at all! The stars of moder wushu would soon be “media w h o r e” once 2008 Olympics is held in Beijing. I am sorry I would have to wonder if you are at all a TCMA practitioner with the well being of TCMA at heart?!
If you understood all these, weighted the situation and you feel fine or see nothing wrong with that, then we obviously don’t share the same moral values. We will just have to agree to disagree. But please understand that I don’t mean any of my posts to be disrepectful to anyone. I just hate modern wushu with passion that’s all (within reason of course).
Anyway, I can only hope to keep fighting for TCMA and keep educating people about the difference. I know it’s a ever losing battle with the modern wushu crap but I am going do it for as long as I can because it is a cause worth fighting for.
Regards
Mantis108[/QUOTE]
a punch is a punch no ? and a kick is a kick so surely wushu must have some value (look at old school nan quan and in alot of places u can see how it applies)
if they labeled this better and made it clear that it is nothing more than a sport ?
(btw i also find badminton helps my training reflexes etc)
what then ?
can u admire the speed the athletisicsm
wushu is not some evil force
[QUOTE=firepalm;752489]
Difference the girl doesn’t make any claims of being able to fight, she’s a wushu athlete trained for performance / sport wushu.
[/QUOTE]
it seems that she doesnt have to make claims.
even people involved with kungfu thinks she can fight with that…
thats where a major problem is, let alone the mainstream public linking modern wushu to actual martial competency, now we have people who are involved in CMA thinking that this modern wushu stuff is actually a good base for fighting.
its like thinking a kabuki actor is a fighter because they wield weapons in thier performances…it may look like hes a scary warrior but hes not…hes just pretending, much like alot of todays modern wushu.
dont get me wrong, i know alot of modern wushu peeps have trad. bg’s and understand actually fighting concepts and where the line between modernwushu and real martial arts is…but this is not going to be the norm for very long…sadly
the clip of the fanzi women was from the early to mid 80’s. i have it on my hard drive with narration.
the women is chu fengliang, she is master level athelete and champion of fanzi boxing 5 times running.
i like wushu for what it is. i know a couple former top athletes rom china and they are very good at kung fu. not just modern wushu. i see these wushu people work harder then most of the traditional people i see.
i love traditional kung fu more dont get me wrong. 