I just read a good article from JAMA
“Wushu’s transformation from local boxing ring to the world stage”
What is your oppinion on this matter?
It would be nice if martial elements were a bigger part of the scoring…there must be something to separate modern Wushu from gymnastics and dance to make it really worth developing.
Still, performance Wushu has raised the bar for athleticism among martial artists (and probably has been for centuries), so that’s a good thing. As long as traditional practice is also kept alive (and I believe it will be), I have no problems with the performance aspects.
I think it can be added as another form of gymnastics.
they already have the ball play and the ribbon play and hoop play.
Why not include wushu in these types of floor routines?
performance wushu isn’t of much value as actual martial training goes, but aesthetically it’s nice to watch and has value in that respect. Also, it maps over into movie fu better and allows for more interesting shots with less close ups and post edits to make fights look cool.
I read somewhere that modern wushu is no longer very popular in China. It’s more popular than ‘traditional’, but that most young people are more interested in other things. I’m betting its exclusion from becoming an official Olympic sport has only added to that.
IMO, modern wushu is a good athletic challenge for those who like a standardized performing art. I’m not sure it translates better into ‘movie fu’, it depends on the person, the director, etc. There is a sameness to all the performances, which for some people is a plus, since there are clear levels. OTOH, wushu overload can become boring after awhile.
I consider wushu as a purely athletic pursuit that should/must be started young, and the performer’s ability peaks, then begins to deteriorate at a young age. This is due to the unnatural and extra-difficult aspects being emphasized (nan du).
Wushu (martially) stinks. Going to continue to stink.
your opinion is noted. lol
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1152492]Wushu (martially) stinks. Going to continue to stink.[/QUOTE]
At least we agree on this issue.
To me, stink is still too friendly word. I had met many TCMA teachers in China. They had to teach Wushu because no students wanted to learn TCMA from them. Wushu will kill TCMA if we don’t stop it. I had told The Chairman of the National Wushu Committee Hsu Tzi that as long as I live, I will do my best to stop Whshu from entering Olympic game. I could still remember his face turned into green color when I said that during the 1st Jinan TCMA tournament in 1991.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1152328]I think it can be added as another form of gymnastics.
they already have the ball play and the ribbon play and hoop play.
Why not include wushu in these types of floor routines?
performance wushu isn’t of much value as actual martial training goes, but aesthetically it’s nice to watch and has value in that respect. Also, it maps over into movie fu better and allows for more interesting shots with less close ups and post edits to make fights look cool.[/QUOTE]
Wushu is a combination of Figure Skating, Rhythmic Gymnastics and Toddlers & Tiaras.
*Strikes dramatic pose
Also, it makes movie choreography look like crap. How many times do I want to watch the same fight sequences over and over again? It’s too standardized, too common.
[QUOTE=Jimbo;1152330]I read somewhere that modern wushu is no longer very popular in China. It’s more popular than ‘traditional’, but that most young people are more interested in other things. I’m betting its exclusion from becoming an official Olympic sport has only added to that.[/QUOTE]
From speaking with some native Chinese not otherwise involved in martial arts I’ve also heard this. The younger generation isn’t into it at all.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1152500]At least we agree on this issue.
To me, stink is still too friendly word. Wushu will kill TCMA if we don’t stop it. I had told The Chairman of the National Wushu Committee Hsu Tzi that as long as I live, I will do my best to stop Whshu from entering Olympic game. I could still remember his face turned into green color when I said that during the 1st Jinan TCMA tournament in 1991.[/QUOTE]
Kill it?
I don’t think so. I think modern wushu will simply be what it is.
If your kung fu is good and produces benefits and you pass it to someone else, it’ll be fine.
wushu has zero effect on my practice.
mma has zero effect on my practice.
they’re there I can visit if i like, or not.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1152506]Kill it?
I don’t think so. I think modern wushu will simply be what it is.
If your kung fu is good and produces benefits and you pass it to someone else, it’ll be fine.
wushu has zero effect on my practice.
mma has zero effect on my practice.
they’re there I can visit if i like, or not. :)[/QUOTE]
YouKnowWho:
Modern Wushu has no bearing on tradtional kung fu. If you look at it closely enough you will see that it is a different animal altogether. It is a Martial Sport, where I do no look at TCMA as Martial Sport.
When they were creating Wushu they took many of the Martial aspects oout in lew of more acrobatic and gymnastic techniques. They modeled it after Olympic Gymanstic floor routine as to set it up for future placement in the Olympics. (Note how that did not work so well). They forgot to teach this Wushu to the rest of the world so they would have someone to compete against.
ginosifu
ps John … it’s just a sport like gymnastics.
There’s a long standing tradition of ‘performance’ kung fu
Wushu is just the most recent permutation. Honestly, those of you who see modern wushu and traditional kung fu as black and white really haven’t examined either that closely. Sure, there’s a lot of flowery fists in modern wushu (and for convenience, we’re speaking strictly about taolu here), even mores so now with nandu. But that has always been an integral part of kung fu. It’s performance too. In Lorge’s new book, Chinese Martial Arts, he finds evidence of martial dances as far back as the Warring States period (475 to 221 BCE). Martial dances appear across many cultures, not just Chinese. You’ll find them in Europe, the Americas, Africa, pretty much in every traditional culture.
Don’t let the current MMA cage your mind as to what kung fu is.
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1152529]Don’t let the current MMA cage your mind as to what kung fu is.[/QUOTE]
Nice one. 
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1152529]Wushu is just the most recent permutation. Honestly, those of you who see modern wushu and traditional kung fu as black and white really haven’t examined either that closely. Sure, there’s a lot of flowery fists in modern wushu (and for convenience, we’re speaking strictly about taolu here), even mores so now with nandu. But that has always been an integral part of kung fu. It’s performance too. In Lorge’s new book, Chinese Martial Arts, he finds evidence of martial dances as far back as the Warring States period (475 to 221 BCE). Martial dances appear across many cultures, not just Chinese. You’ll find them in Europe, the Americas, Africa, pretty much in every traditional culture.
Don’t let the current MMA cage your mind as to what kung fu is.[/QUOTE]
traditional performance shows MANLINESS and instill fear.
[QUOTE=bawang;1152531]traditional performance shows MANLINESS and instill fear.[/QUOTE]
Time and effort with purpose and intention show manliness. Fear instills fear. 
squats…
I want to imagine that many people died violent deaths during those ancient martial dances and people still talked shit about how weak it was.
Indeed they did, wenshu…
Honestly, I’ve never quite understood why practitioners get their panties in such a bunch over dancers in martial arts. I’d watch dancers in anything: ballet, ballroom, hip hop, pole… why wouldn’t I enjoy martial dancing too?
I think we all need to take 4 min. T.O. and watch this: Sword Bellydance
[QUOTE=wenshu;1152539]I want to imagine that many people died violent deaths during those ancient martial dances and people still talked shit about how weak it was.[/QUOTE]
Yes, this would comfort me as well, in the knowledge that no matter how much things changed, they stayed the same.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1152500]At least we agree on this issue.
Wushu will kill TCMA if we don’t stop it. I had told The Chairman of the National Wushu Committee Hsu Tzi that as long as I live, I will do my best to stop Whshu from entering Olympic game. I could still remember his face turned into green color when I said that during the 1st Jinan TCMA tournament in 1991.[/QUOTE]
I honestly think TCMA is already dead.
There are enough existing remnants, where worthwhile technologies can be kept and combined with more modern training to create something new but to keep going in its current direction is poison.
Wushu in the Olympics… for me… fine! It’s no different than gymnastics floor routine. I do not view TCMA, in its current format, as a martial art. And the only thing that would change that opinion for me would be some of these TCMA styles producing competitive fighters.
Not everyone needs to fight. But at least 2% ( 2 out of 100) of all the students worldwide should be able to compete. So many discussions on this board and it comes down to the very basic and simple: if TCMA was working, alive, we’d see it. It would be producing quality international fighters like boxing, kick boxing, Thai Boxing, BJJ, Judo, wrestling, fencing…
No fighters from a martial art system = system is dead.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1152624]
No fighters from a martial art system = system is dead.[/QUOTE]
Are you saying the Danish Army is dead?
Are you saying the French couldn’t mount a battle plan?
What about Buddhist martial arts?
No competitive fighters = system is dead? Sure if it’s a competitive fighting style designed for that.
Otherwise, your premise is incorrect. I’m surprised you can’t bridge the diversities and fail to understand value of things from all directions.
P.S it is my view that many people get into wrestling arts because they can’t handle being punched in the face or the guts. This after many years of watching that happen again and again.