Three level of Wck understanding

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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[QUOTE=Hendrik;1266908]Beside speculation, how can you know without examine the facts?

What is Wck a short strike art got to do with CLF which is long strike art using a totally different engine?[/QUOTE]

From the Long comes the Short. This you obviously do not comprehend, without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion. You understand nothing of kinesiology.

Now how about you address FongSung’s reply about there being no mention of Emei in any of the Cho Family documentation?

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[QUOTE=dlcox;1266916]From the Long comes the Short. This you obviously do not comprehend, without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion. You understand nothing of kinesiology.

Now how about you address FongSung’s reply about there being no mention of Emei in any of the Cho Family documentation?[/QUOTE]

  1. Short and long, please do your home work in ancient Chinese martial art type. You sure are free to invent your own martial art, but please not get mix up between what you think and what it is.

The following is from Ming dynasty general Ji book.

Different arts art are not the same.

  1. Anyone are free to have their opinion.
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[QUOTE=Hendrik;1266923]1. Short and long, please do your home work in ancient Chinese martial art type. You sure are free to invent your own martial art, but please not get mix up between what you think and what it is.

The following is from Ming dynasty general Ji book.

Different arts art are not the same.

  1. Anyone are free to have their opinion.[/QUOTE] invent his own martial art, like you. And you still haven’t answered the question
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[QUOTE=deejaye72;1266928]invent his own martial art, like you. And you still haven’t answered the question[/QUOTE]

You are free to close your eyes and speculate

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[QUOTE=Hendrik;1266929]You are free to close your eyes and speculate[/QUOTE]

Still haven’t answered the question. Can’t open something that’s already been open.

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[QUOTE=Hendrik;1266923]1. Short and long, please do your home work in ancient Chinese martial art type. You sure are free to invent your own martial art, but please not get mix up between what you think and what it is.

The following is from Ming dynasty general Ji book.

Different arts art are not the same.

  1. Anyone are free to have their opinion.[/QUOTE]

Qi Guang Ji is talking about and describing various martial methods that existed in his time. It’s not a detailed description on the mechanical differences between long fist and short hand.

Robert has the ancient core . So, the rest is his decision on how to evolve his lineage

Quote Originally Posted by kung fu fighter View Post
The CSLWCK fighters seem to be using body type power generation rather than the close range force line type. They use the body type wing chun power generation with MMA tools such as low muai thai leg kicks, boxing bouncing footwork and bobing, wrestling and BJJ instead of protecting their centerline with pure wing chun tools/application. if you take a look at Josh’s fight his opponent was able to clinch and take him down due to the fact that he left his centerline wide open while throwing wild swinging punches.

You are right.

However,
There are many ways to implement things and different level.
CSLWCK is a system with many different elements which has both body and force line type.

This was your reply Hendrik. How can I not understand and be incorrect when I say something like Long and Short has the same “Engine”, when you can? Is it because it only applies if you know “Snake Engine”?

Both Muai thai and CSLWCK uses long fist body type power generation

You and your student agreed on another thread the above statement. If you say it is Wing Chun “Core” how can you say it uses long fist body power type? Wouldn’t this be a contradiction by your own admission seeing as you believe that short and long are different and cannot co-exist?

Hendrik, I used to like you enough to tolerate you. Now I find myself convinced, by the statements you make, that you know absolutely nothing about martial arts. Anyone who comes to your defense is a fool.

Once again you still have not answered the question.

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  1. My student?

  2. You are obviously trying to twist anything to win .
    You action shows you never like me since the beginning.
    So, just be straight forward. I am ok you like me or not.
    Also, You also don’t need to tolerate me, you don’t have to read anything I post.

  3. I have already told you, 30 years later let the Wck historian judge. Why even need to waste energy? I leave it to them here on.

[QUOTE=dlcox;1266942]Qi Guang Ji is talking about and describing various martial methods that existed in his time. It’s not a detailed description on the mechanical differences between long fist and short hand.

This was your reply Hendrik. How can I not understand and be incorrect when I say something like Long and Short has the same “Engine”, when you can? Is it because it only applies if you know “Snake Engine”?

You and your student agreed on another thread the above statement. If you say it is Wing Chun “Core” how can you say it uses long fist body power type? Wouldn’t this be a contradiction by your own admission seeing as you believe that short and long are different and cannot co-exist?

Hendrik, I used to like you enough to tolerate you. Now I find myself convinced, by the statements you make, that you know absolutely nothing about martial arts. Anyone who comes to your defense is a fool.

Once again you still have not answered the question.[/QUOTE]

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[QUOTE=Hendrik;1266943]1. My student?

  1. You are obviously trying to twist anything to win .
    You action shows you never like me since the beginning.
    So, just be straight forward. I am ok you like me or not.
    Also, You also don’t need to tolerate me, you don’t have to read anything I post.

  2. I have already told you, 30 years later let the Wck historian judge. Why even need to waste energy? I leave it to them here on.[/QUOTE]

And thats your other excuse… “you just dont like me”

Thats your standard reply when you cant answer questions or you are caught out again with the standard bull5hit that pours out of you.

People here try to keep to facts… you bring emotion into it

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[QUOTE=dlcox;1266942]You and your student agreed on another thread the above statement. If you say it is Wing Chun “Core” how can you say it uses long fist body power type? Wouldn’t this be a contradiction by your own admission seeing as you believe that short and long are different and cannot co-exist? [/QUOTE]

You are a clown and obviously don’t get what Hendrik speaks about. please read what he said again below

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1266852] Robert has the ancient core . So, the rest is his decision on how to evolve his lineage .[/QUOTE]

The body type power generation are in arts like Jook Lum SPM, Bak mei, Lung Ying, Choy LAy Fut, western boxing, Muai Thai, CSLWCK, as well as any other wing chun which does not use the force line snake engine type. All these arts have close range techniques using the body type power generation, however the wing chun snake engine force line type power generation is a more advance specialized engine better suited for close range fighting. CSLWCK uses this same body type power generation as these other arts, so there is no issue to incorporate techniques from any of these body type power generation arts since the fundamental power generation engine is the same.

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The body type power generation are in arts like Jook Lum SPM, Bak mei, Lung Ying, Choy LAy Fut, western boxing, Muai Thai, CSLWCK, as well as any other wing chun which does not use the force line snake engine type. All these arts have close range techniques using the body type power generation, however the wing chun snake engine force line type power generation is a more advance specialized engine better suited for close range fighting. CSLWCK uses this same body type power generation as these other arts, so there is no issue to incorporate techniques from any of these body type power generation arts since the fundamental power generation engine is the sam
e.

So youre basically saying that Alans boys dont do WC?
Just some hybrid system they put together?

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[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1266950]You are a clown and obviously don’t get what Hendrik speaks about. please read what he said again below

The body type power generation are in arts like Jook Lum SPM, Bak mei, Lung Ying, Choy LAy Fut, western boxing, Muai Thai, CSLWCK, as well as any other wing chun which does not use the force line snake engine type. All these arts have close range techniques using the body type power generation, however the wing chun snake engine force line type power generation is a more advance specialized engine better suited for close range fighting. CSLWCK uses this same body type power generation as these other arts, so there is no issue to incorporate techniques from any of these body type power generation arts since the fundamental power generation engine is the same.[/QUOTE]

“Think what you like, I only present facts.”

Make some more sh!t up you ignorant b@stard! You haven’t a clue as to what the hell you are taking about.

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From the Long comes the Short. This you obviously do not comprehend, without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion. You understand nothing of kinesiology.

I don’t know about Hendrik. But I understand plenty about kinesiology and biomechanics. And what you just said makes no sense.

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[QUOTE=KPM;1266961]From the Long comes the Short. This you obviously do not comprehend, without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion. You understand nothing of kinesiology.

I don’t know about Hendrik. But I understand plenty about kinesiology and biomechanics. And what you just said makes no sense.[/QUOTE]

Let’s take a straight punch as an example. Doesn’t matter if it is thrown from far away or in close the same mechanics are involved. The only time this would be contradictory is if for example, we compare two different punches like uppercut and hammer fist to the analogy and try to link them to the same mechanics and path. Same punches from long or short involve same movement assuming that they are launched from roughly the same position. Leverage, force and impact are then determined by acceleration of the movement. We could go further into this but I think that the salient points have been addressed. Do I make sense now?

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[QUOTE=KPM;1266961]From the Long comes the Short. This you obviously do not comprehend, without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion. You understand nothing of kinesiology.

I don’t know about Hendrik. But I understand plenty about kinesiology and biomechanics. And what you just said makes no sense.[/QUOTE]

Often people not aware of the differences of these in the attached picture

image.jpg
image.jpg692×864 92.5 KB

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great diagram, i was looking for that one to put on here, but u beat me to it!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1266978]Often people not aware of the differences of these in the attached picture[/QUOTE]

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[QUOTE=Hendrik;1266978]Often people not aware of the differences of these in the attached picture[/QUOTE]

WOW! The Fifth Code of the Snake Cult is really enlightening! Please forgive my ignorance, I beg you wise master, show me the way.

VIPER MANTRA: Hissss, Hissss, Hisss, Join the Snake Cult, Hisss, Hisss, Hisss, Your Liberation Awaits, Hisss, Hisss, Hisss

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[QUOTE=KPM;1266961]From the Long comes the Short. This you obviously do not comprehend, without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion. You understand nothing of kinesiology.[/QUOTE]

Keith, he obviously must be talking about his pen!s.:smiley: When I read that I almost feel out of my chair, it was the stupidest thing I ever read and didn’t want to even attempt to address it.

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[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1266984]Keith, he obviously must be talking about his pen!s.:smiley: When I read that I almost feel out of my chair, it was the stupidest thing I ever read and didn’t want to even attempt to address it.[/QUOTE]

The body type power generation are in arts like Jook Lum SPM, Bak mei, Lung Ying, Choy LAy Fut, western boxing, Muai Thai, CSLWCK, as well as any other wing chun which does not use the force line snake engine type. All these arts have close range techniques using the body type power generation, however the wing chun snake engine force line type power generation is a more advance specialized engine better suited for close range fighting. CSLWCK uses this same body type power generation as these other arts, so there is no issue to incorporate techniques from any of these body type power generation arts since the fundamental power generation engine is the same.

You write this gibberish and I’m the stupid one?

By the way, what’s the fascination with my pen!s? Are you light in the loafers or just curious to see what a real man has between his legs?

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[QUOTE=dlcox;1266963]Let’s take a straight punch as an example. Doesn’t matter if it is thrown from far away or in close the same mechanics are involved. [/QUOTE]

I guess it depends on the straight punch! For example, in the version of WCK I practice there is a “long range” straight punch (the Pin Sun Da) that involves a large pivot, extending the punching arm until it is almost completely straight, turning the body so it is completely perpendicular to the target and pulling the opposite arm back to increase the reach and power of the punch. YSKWCK has this punch as well. There is also a very short range straight punch that is delivered without any movement of the feet or with a slight step forward, body more square to the target, with the arm very bent, and with the rear hand forward to cover or protect. Two very different mechanics. One may travel for 2 feet, while the other only 2 inches. But the delivery of the last 2 inches of travel of the long range punch is not the same as the short range punch. So in my opinion, your statement of:

without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion.

is simply not true.

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[QUOTE=KPM;1266990]I guess it depends on the straight punch! For example, in the version of WCK I practice there is a “long range” straight punch (the Pin Sun Da) that involves a large pivot, extending the punching arm until it is almost completely straight, turning the body so it is completely perpendicular to the target and pulling the opposite arm back to increase the reach and power of the punch. YSKWCK has this punch as well.
[/QUOTE]

That is not a long range punch it is a training punch.

If you think I am wrong try to use that in sparring and the light will come on.

There is also a very short range straight punch that is delivered without any movement of the feet or with a slight step forward, body more square to the target, with the arm very bent, and with the rear hand forward to cover or protect. Two very different mechanics. One may travel for 2 feet, while the other only 2 inches. But the delivery of the last 2 inches of travel of the long range punch is not the same as the short range punch. So in my opinion, your statement of:

without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion.

is simply not true.

The model is not application.