Hi,
What’s the difference in application between Ba Gua Zhang and CLF Baat Gwa strategy.
Can someone give a detailed explanation of CLF baat qwa footwork theory, as well as some examples and specific applications of how the Choy Lay Fut Baat Gwa strategy is used in combat?
CLF footwork
The footwork in most complete CMA styles should be such that it can take you out of a disadvantageous situation and put you into one that provides the best opportunity for both attack and defense.
In the case of CLF their is footwork that can go in various angular and circular directions so as to evade oncoming attacks and put one into a good position for counter attack. For example stepping to the outside and forward of a straight line attack placing one on the side of their opponent.
Their is also advancing footwork when teamed with the right feints and attacks which can place you into the best position to launch one’s attack.
Stability of the stance arrived at is also a factor when transitioning through the various footwork.
I am sure their are others here that would be able to better tell you the differences or similarities between CLF & Bagua footwork.
I am no authority on Baat Gwa as I only do CLF. From what I know and have seen Baat Kwa their footwork typically walks or moves aroung the baat gwa circle. They typically twist, turn and coil and use a lot of palming techniques.
Baat kwa in CLF is more of a theory of attack. As mentioned before the attacks will come from the 8 directions all the 3 gates (upper, mid and lower). The footwork will move in the 8 directions.
Like I said the two have nothing in common.
Hi,
So basically the CLF baat qwa footwork theory is used to position yourself on a 45 degree angle to the outside of the opponent using any of the 8 directions, so that you can safely launch an attack on his flank?
Are there other angles used besides the 45 degree, and if so what are they?
Gates work together with footwork
When attacking one will of course pay attention to footwork but they also should pay attention to the gates (as CLFNole) mentioned. For example a CLF person can come in on a straightline but in doing so they launch a fake attack at one gate with the objective of opening another gate; fake a high distractionary attack at the face {high gate} and then follow through with a low kick to the groin or legs {lower gate}, (NOTE - this example is sometimes referred to as a ghost kick). While it may vary from one branch of CLF to another but there are essentially 3 to 9 gates; high, middle & low and then these can be further divided into left, right & center. The idea again is for a series of attacks to come in at several different angles each attacking different gates, the opponent may be able to cover a few but in covering up one gate another is certainly exposed.
Hi Kung Fu Fighter,
The best example is to picture a compass on the floor… you have 1. NW, 2. N, 3. NE, 4. W, 5. E, 6. SW, 7. S, 8. SE…
You can use these 8 directions to step in, out, back, etc… You can also use it for explaining proper foot placement when doing certain stances to help movement especially in the hips…
From my limited knowledge of bagua jerng, they walk in a circle avoiding attacks and make 8 changes (palm changes) which are the different counters and techniques… The changes possibly take place where the different symbols surrounding the yin/yang on the bagua symbol are… Maybe ask them on the internal forum…
Joe
8 directions does not mean only 45 degree angles. Think of it in terms of directions: N, S, E, W, NE, NW, SE & SW.
Man, Joe you beat me to it when I was typing. 
What I mean by 45 degree angles is being on a 45 in relation to the opponent from any of the 8 directions.
I completely understand what you guys are saying about the 8 directions or 8 angles of the bagua symbol, But a smart fighter will always try to re-orient himself to face you which makes it extremely difficult to get to any angles besides 45 degree angles due to the amount of time needed to move to larger angles.
Am I correct in my understanding of the CLF baat gwa theory, if not please feel free to correct me?
Kung Fu Fighter,
If I understand you then yes you are right. The compass or Bagua is used in terms of stepping or position but is set up so you can make use of various combos or direction changes. Which ever way you move you can reuse the compass, the middle is usullay related to your center of gravity…
Its just a means to understand direction… from there you can fly with it…
Joe
PS
In some of our forms we do a Cross pattern where we only go foward, back, right & left…
Basically, moving to an angle of your opponent, jamming them, then it becomes a close-quarters game with long arm attacks, designed to pummel THROUGH the opponent.
At least, that is our goal.
"Basically, moving to an angle of your opponent, jamming them, then it becomes a close-quarters game with long arm attacks, designed to pummel THROUGH the opponent.
At least, that is our goal."
-Gee, now why does that sound like Hung-Ga? 
Yeah, but we don’t always adhere to the bridge, like you guys. We just hit again and again. Bridge can be broken or not.
Bridging is not just with the arms. It is with the legs, stance, intent, mind, proximity,etc. Any connection, is bridging.
word to yer mother
mo kiu, mon kiu
Bridging is not just with the arms. It is with the legs, stance, intent, mind, proximity,etc. Any connection, is bridging.
Hey TenTigers, weren’t you the one who stated that Choy Lay Fut is an “anti-bridging” southern system?
I think that was you somewhere. . . . . anyways sure we bridge, but it’s still really different from Hung Ga.
Cool but what angle are you trying to get in relation to the opponent, is it 45 degree in relation to where he is facing, roughly his side or flank, larger angles are slower to get to and therefore almost impossible against a good fighter?
Is the CLF baat gwa theory ment to be used to circle, stick and move like in western boxing where the boxer constantly changes angles after launching each attack by circling his opponent as a defense to the opponent’s potential counter attacks.
CLF’s fighting theory does not rely on always being on a 45 degree angle to your oppenent. If you can be that is good but we all know when actually fighting things don’t always go as planned.
The CLF baat gwa footwork is designed to give the player a variety of angles which he or she can utilize. The goal of CLF is to overwelm the opponent with a lot of attacks coming from all different angles and direction, hence the use of the words baat gwa.
It’s difficult enough to try to get a 45 degree angle on a good fighter and almost impossible to get behind him. how do you guys do it.
Kung Fu Fighter…
Thats our secret…
Let me try and explain a technique using the sow choy 
After that you can apply whatever you like, a choke, a kick, whatever…
the steps were NE the North again… But again a tool to understand where to step or go… maybe its different in someone elses school? But just a tool to help teach, nothing more that I know…
So if you need a specific technique then maybe ask for a counter…
Joe
man language barrier is a bad thing. all these years i was taught what you are talking about and to hear you put the actions into words are pretty cool there buddy. Joe.