Hey guys, I was watching a dvd by chen yongfa and he was showing a combination in which after a sau choi he threw a spinning kick as a follow up. This is the first time I’ve seen this in CLF
In our choy lay fut we only practice low kicks (there are some tornado kicks in our forms). Our main emphasis is on hand technique with kicks used very seldom.
This made me curious as to what kind of kicks you guys use in the various schools and branches of CLF.
High, low, front, side, spinning etc.
We have the same combination in our CLF. So Choih, Fu Mei Teui.
These are some of the kicks we use in our hand forms;
Jaat Teui - Cross Kick
Liu Yum Teui - Groin Agitating Kick (Snap Kick to groin)
Chyuhn Sum Teui - Heart Penetration Kick (Heel Kick to Chest)
Fei Hok Teui - Flying Crane Kick (Heel Kick to Chin)
Chaai Teui - Side Kick
Fu Mei Teui - Tiger Tail Kick (Back Kick)
Pek Teui - Chopping Kick (Low sweeping Kick)
Baai Liin Teui - Outside Crescent Kick
Piin Teui - Slicing Kick (Inside Crescent)
Seung Fung Teui - Tornado Kick (Jumping Inside Crescent)
So Teui - Sweeping Kick
Hyuhn Teui - Turning Kick (Roundhouse with Ridge of foot)
Although there are quite a few other we use, these 12 are the most common. We probably use another 12 more, but they are not seen too often in our forms.
I don’t know how many forms of CLF my Sifu knew. I learned about 22 of them, but most of them don’t have more than 5 kicks per 75 moves. Some forms have 10 or more kicks, and our “Ghost Kicking Form” has over 35 kicks in it.
Are forms are from all different branches; http://www.nykungfu.com/school/ChoyLayFut.asp
Hope this is helpful to someone…
I always found it weird that Hung-Ga doesn’t have a roundhouse kick,(although it might simply be implied) while Bok hok P’ai does. I have seen CLF do it as well. I am thinking that Wong Yun Lum might have done this as well? Does lama Have the roundhouse?
In terms of kicks that appear in the forms we have:
-Inside crescent
-Tornado Kick
-Roundhouse
-Nail Kick
-Front snap kick
-Fu Mei Geuk (tiger tail back kick)
-Chyun Toi Da Geuk (shin kick)
-Sou GeuK (Broom Foot Sweekp)
-Chan Fu Geuk (Dropping side kick)
However, we practice a lot of kicks that aren’t in the forms also.
in my school i teach the following…
front snap kick-different levels-waist-stomach, chest, knee, - like Lama’s heart piercing.
side kicks (knife edge and toe up like front snap kick)-no higher than the waist----but higher just for practice and showing off.
inside and outside crescents.
front slap kick—similar to snap kick except you use the instep of your foot to slap at either the nuts or the gut.
tiger tail kick
butterfly (tornado) kicks
duck kick
I also teach other kicks outside our system like spinning crescents, spinning back kicks, jumping front snap kicks, jumping side kicks, roundhouses, double kicks, spinning heal kicks. i teach these because it is my opinion that knowing how to kick, even if you don’t intend to in a confrontation, will allow you a greater lower body awareness than not training to kick.
hsk
This is for everyone…
what kind of kicking drills does your school do? is there a minimum of kicks to utilize when launched? no less than?..
For example, when we practice roundhouse kicks, one guy holds the pad while the other throws left roundhouses into the pads, then the guy with the pad changes sides and you throw the same kick with the other leg. we do this all the way across the room, and even in reverse.
What is your favorites kicks, and why?
one of my favorite kicks is the butterfly (tornado) done repeatedly in one spot.
Favorite for show or fighting?
All of my kicks are used only for fighting purposes. I could care less about perfoming or showing off.
Which is why you’ll never see me using a crescent kick or a tornado kick.
I really only use 3 kicks at the moment > low to mid roundhouse, fron snap kick, and front push kick.
I am also hoping to be able to learn the Muay Thai roundhouse real soon. I think my Sifu really likes that one but has never really learned it. . . . however he teaches us to use our snap roundhouses in the exact same way. . . . leg kicks.
However most of my techniques involve punching. Kicks are mostly for setting up.
infrazael,
I was talking about both types of kicks, flashy and practical. Personally, i agree with you on using limited kicks like the front snap, thigh kick, but with the crescent kick for practical reasons, i would use only the out side crescent either to the stomach or the chest levels, or to your inner knee.
However, i’m more into leg sweeps, especially front shin. I don’t like long leg sweeps because i don’t feel they are as powerful as mid range ones.
Since my accident in 1987 which left me paralyzed from the waist down I couldn’t kick so i focused intensely on my handwork. but now, i am on my way back to being a kicker and won’t give up until my legs stop working. since my accident i’ve gotten into street fights and didn’t need to use my legs, but since i am getting them back stronger now then before, i am like a kid who took off his training wheels and could now ride my bike without them. you guys have no idea how we all take our legs for granted, until you lose them. today i celebrate the fact that i can jump and get off the ground now. Still it any improvements will always act as an inspiration for me to keep going. Thats why i train right along with my students.
I also only care about practical kicking. I had my fare share of showing off back in my longfist/capoeria days. I can execute a wide range of flashy kicks but choose not to these days.
During sparring I usually throw more thai style round kicks and knees than anything else(I’ve also trained in Muay Thai), but also use side kicks and sometimes front kicks. Never above my opponents midsection.
The dvd I mentioned was on free fighting techniques, so I was wondering if any of you guys attempt similar applications using more “fancy” kicks like I mentioned above during sparring sessions or even during fighting.
Now, let me ask a question. I am a Choy Lee Fut student/teacher. I have only studied the CLF system until now. Let’s say that during my CLF training, i want to enhance certain skills such as elbowing, and kneeing. So I like the way Tai Boxers execute their knee and elbow strikes, and feel i would benefit by using their training method (not learning to Tai Box) to sharpen those skills. After I’ve gotten pretty decent with the moves I return to my clf training. in the forms, because of the Tai training methods i now have stronger elbow techniques and such. Can i still say i am strictly Choy Lee Fut?
Remember, this is hypothetical only. Although i do like the training methods used by other systems, the way i see it however you train to condition yourself be it using hung ga strength training to get stronger, using clf for loose and whipping type stuff, Wing Chun closeness training, or whatever its up to you, but by borrowing another systems ways of training, am i taking away from my Choy Lee Fut?
just a question.
hsk
Some purists would say no.
One has to ask if CLF was an origional set of moves or if techniques and strategies from other systems were adopted into it. (?) My bet is yes.
Of course, some purists would then allude to you not being near the level of skill as your predecessors who did this, and therefore no…again. But what do they really know anyway? It’s easy to toe the party line.
My philosophy is that if it works for you, isn’t a drastic departure from your own system in terms of flow and overall strategy, then go for it. My guess is that there will be enough similarity to things you’ve already learned that it won’t be mouch of a stretch for you anyway.
Good luck!
CLF uses knees and elbows. While the knees are not seen in forms persay they are used in fighting. Maybe not the same way as muay thai but used nonetheless. If you look deep enough almost all chinese styles strike with a combination of hands, feet, knees, elbows, etc…
As long as you didn’t put a thai dance in the middle of ping kuen I think your ok. 
Peace
knees come right after sows because after the leg hit comes the sow that will hit the head down , either by contact or the assailant drops his head to avoid the sow but the knee will come… 10 yrs of clf
tools are tools, attributes are attributes. It does not affect the particular style you are in. I train in Hung Kuen, but I also have a backround in Northern Shaolin, as well as Korean Martial Arts(TKD,HapKiDo,Tang Soo Do) and I teach roundhouse kicks,hook kicks, and others in my school. Now, some might say,“That’s not Hung-Ga” but I didn’t throw a jump spinning hook kick in the middle of Tiger Crane, I simply teach the tools. I won’t limit my students. Also, you need to understand the kick in order to be able to defend against it. I have been at schools where the teacher taught the lamest defenses against kicks-because he himself couldn’t kick.His students will suffer if they ever meet anyone who can kick worth a dang.
One of my students is Thai. His Dad and Uncles taught him rudimentary Muay Thai, and he continued to study Muay Thai, Muay Boran, and Krabi-Krabong. We do alot of Thai type kicks in class. Why? Because knowone does it better, and if you want to develop a roundhouse kick that will drop someone, learn from the guys who do it for a living. Tools/attributes. It doesn’t mean you are a Thai Boxer.
Thanks for the comments.
I agree with all of you. Clfnole, i know we have knee’s and elbows in our forms, and there are always things you don’t see that are there. but how do you train with CLF Knee’s and Elbows without looking like a thai boxer? We all have very similar elbows and knee’s in CLf as compared to Thai boxing, except the execute theirs differently than we do.
But if there is a CLF method to training Elbows and Knee strikes, what are they?
Training methods are just that…methods. so you take their concepts, principals, and theories and then apply them to your CLF, right? Right! 
by the way, has anyone checked out my webpage? :rolleyes:
peace
We have always had an elbow drill which is kind of a form/technique practice utilizing 4 different elbows with the right arm and left arm. We would practice both knees and elbows with a bag and then some of us will practice on the jong.
Whats the difference CLF knee, hung gar elbow, muay thai knee, its all just strikes.
As far as your site goes its okay. No real proof or evidence about CCWS but then again no one has any evidence to the contrary. Checking websites and talking to a few people is nice but its not real research of history. That takes a lot of time and money. Unless someone really does that all this history stuff is pure speculation and hearsay becuase no one really knows the truth, yet everyone thinks they do.
As far as CHoy Lee Fut goes, theres no real evidence that Chan Heung created it.
Personally I don’t think a figure such as the green grass monk would have information floating around about him during his time. It would have meant instant death. That’s why there is nothing on jeong yim except word of mouth. there are no known drawings or photo’s of him.
Regardless, now there is more information about the Green Grass Monk than just that he was one of Jeong Yim’s teachers. The information I put together also puts to rest the issue of who used “Hung Sing” first. Chan Heung was “not” using our Hung Sing he was using a completely different Hung Sing alltogether.
So the argument that the Green Grass Monk couldn’t have gave Jeong Yim that name because Chan Heung was using it first is wrong. Choy Fook being the Green Grass Monk was wrong. No one in CLF has the one true story, at all.
So the best we can do is spread the history as it was handed down to us.
Now the argument about “evidence” to the Green Grass Monks existance what evidence would you like to have provided to you? a picture? Other styles out there refer to the Green Grass Monk, and mention no connection to CLF, but they mention his name as being Cai DeZhong. A book called the Hung Mun Society which documented it development that is no longer in print names Cai DeZhong as being the head of the Hung Mun Society. The Hung Sing branch has always claimed that Ching Cho was heavily involved in the revolution, especially the Hung Society, therefore which is how Jeong Yim came to acquire the name Hung Sing.
well, we don’t know if Chan Heungs photo is really of Chan Heung now do we? CLF history according to the chan family, well, it wasn’t written by chan heung himself, but his grand son, so why are we to believe the grandson? is he not capable of altering the history to bend it in their favor?
To this day there is no possible way to prove any of CLF’s claims. Chan Heung killed a full grown tiger in his later years, and he came out of it without even a nick? where is the tiger now? so, if there is no existing tiger that chan heung killed why should i believe he killed a tiger with his bare hands?
When it comes to gung fu history what evidence, what proof is out there that would satisfy your curiosity? Pls, tell me, what proof that is readily available are you looking for?
clfnole, don’t take what and how i am saying wrong, i’m not fighting with you but only trying to get you to open your mind a little to the possiblities. if you have no stake in the history, then it shouldn’t bother you. Just allow me to tell our story now it has a little more meat in it than it did before.
We may never have to truth, but because of what i put out, we are one step closer than before. thats all.
And my little starte webpage was mainly to share some photo’s of our school and lineage. hope you enjoy the photo’s.
peace
other than what was written about jesus, how do we know the he really existed? yet, people are so quick to want to believe in him. We are told that there is a higher being we call God, but has anyone seen him? Where did he come from? Still, we all believe in him don’t we? Well, accept for Athiasts.
My point being, is why is it so wrong to research and come up with as much information whether it be hearsay or speculation on someone in my lineage?
I mean, in our choy lee fut family, how do we know that Choy Fook or Lee Yan San was real? There are no evidence of their existance, but we bring them up in our history because it was handed down to us. People usually tell their history so it doesn’t get forgotten. So, if that was true, why can’t we just tell our story and not have people try to dispute it? Perhaps the people who are always disputing our version of the history is afraid of losing something instead of welcoming it.
i don’t know.
isn’t it all about faith? then i have faith that the information that was transmitted down through Jeong Yim to Chan Sing, yuen hai, Lui Chun, and etc., then down to their students and so on. Then i have to ask, just because there is no evidence existing, why am i wrong if this is what was handed down through our generations?
clfnole, this is not towards you, i am only spouting off, i need to get laid or something.
Don’t worry I never take offense I got thick skin and besides if anyone gets bent out of shape because of what a person says to you on the internet then you have issues.
Personally I always believe that the truth always lies somewhere in the middle. The Chan Yiu Chi manuscripts to me have holes. Stories will always change somewhat as they pass along from generation to generation. No one has any real evidence its believe what you want. As far as who was the GGM maybe he was real maybe he wasn’t. You can believe he was Cai De Zhong some people will claim that the 5 Shaolin Masters were folklore.
I think studying history is great and “real” research has its merits. By real I mean going to China and studying old documents; however if nothing is out there to study than you can’t come to any real conclusion.
My whole point about all this is everyone can put up a version of history but the bottom line is that none of it carries that much weight because no one can prove they are right.
You brought up religion before and my take on religion is that it stems from man’s fear of death. With CLF history it becomes a ****ing contest as to who is an earlier generation, same generation or whatever. How is your kung fu thats what matters what generation you are is great for the talkers.
Back to the theoritical aspects, everyone (please, make a separate thread for history debate if you must. . . . this thread is actually interesting).
hskwarrior – as to your question of asking whether you are still doing “Choy Lay Fut” I would say “yes.” The reason being is that you are not really straying far from the traditional system. . . . just as Thai Boxers who take Western Boxing to improve their hand game, they are still that – Thai Boxers with improved punches. The same goes for CLF, in my opinion. All that, adding different training methods, ideologies, theories, etc. . . . is all about evolution, improving, and becoming stronger. How many kung fu stylists train their knees and shins like Muay Thai boxers? Not many from what I have seen. How many Thai Boxers, then, condition the living hell out of their arms? Again, virtually none.
There are flaws, and there always WILL be flaws in every system. All we need to do is to spot those flaws, be humble with our kung fu, and learn from our mistakes. CLFnole has pointed out that CLF has “knees and elbows.” Yes, we do. Can we use them in a streetfight? Most definitely. However, the difference is in training methodology. 4 Elbows drill is great, however it is also limited in sense. Those elbows are done in horse stance, they are done as a stationary drill, and mostly the intensity/conditioning of the elbows cannot compare to those of Muay Thai. Instead we would be throwing around Sau, Gwa and Chop Choys all day instead of those knees and elbows.
Or are we so arrogant as to say “CLF knee and elbow techniques and training methods are superior to those of Muay Thai?” I don’t think so. . . . . . . therefore, I believe it is our duty to keep the system evolving for the better. If used our elbows and knees with the intensity and methods of Thai boxing, wouldn’t we be better off? I believe it is fair to say that they are much more familiar in the use of those specific weapons, and how to best utilize them, while most CLF folks are mediocre at best, WHEN COMPARED to thai boxers.
I am not saying Muay Thai is superior, but merely as an example. Would you say that CLF somehow has better trapping/schock power than Southern Mantis? Or would you say that all of a sudden, our internal energies are greater than that of Tai Chi?
Each system has its pros and cons. If you can apply one set of training, weapons, or technique to YOUR OWN ORIGINAL SYSTEM WITHOUT changing the very nature of that system (in this case, CLF), then you have succeeded in evolving the system.
Our Founder(s) mixed and matched different styles because they overlap and improve the overall destructive powers than if each style was separate, IMHO. It is up to us to do the same.