Hi’
How would you guys use the CLF bat gwa footwork theory against an NHB/MMA fighter who uses thaiboxing skills to set up a double leg takedown or to inniate any type of grappling?
KFFighter,
You could use the bagua theory to explain where the feet go when you sprawl…
Or where to step before you sweep, or before a take down…
Just a way to help you explain a technique, nothing special…
Frankie Boy…
When you teach class 6 days a week, morning and night & have 8 kids classes a week, you learn alot about teaching with whatever you can… Language I am ok with, i usually MC for our school at banquets and stuff… You know me… Love to blah blah blah…
Joe
Actually I’ve been taught alot of that by my Sihing who’s a boxer. Anyways it works quite well with CLF strategy, and similar in alot of ways.
As for getting to 45 degrees of him? In the ring it’s alot harder, but for self-defense it’s not quite so hard. Use the charging horse, stance transitions, etc. I like to step outside then use a Chuen to block his strike into him, grab, and use a Sau Choy to the back of the neck.
I did that to my Karate friend and he wasn’t very happy. :rolleyes:
“Can someone give a detailed explanation of CLF baat qwa footwork theory, as well as some examples and specific applications of how the Choy Lay Fut Baat Gwa strategy is used in combat?”
CLF has 3 levels; the first level has names associated with the Sup Ji (the cross form) as in Siu Sup Ji, Dai Sup Ji and Plum Blossom, which is really a sup-ji.
The second level has names associated with the Baat Gwa (the 8 Trigrams) as in Hung Yan Baat Gwa, Dat Ting Baat Gwa and Baat Gwa Sum.
The third level as names associated with the Ng Ying (the 5 Animals) as in Ng Ying Kuen, Fu Ying and Lung Ying.
These different generic names referred to the different emphasis on the footwork and other things, which I won’t go into.
Sup Ji is mainly in the 4 directions: forward, backward, left and right and has an emphasis on basic linear footwork.
Baat Gwa is in the eight directions, the four cardinals and the four diagonals and has a diagonal emphasis on the footwork, as in stepping out 45 degree to evade and then stepping in 45 degree to counter.
Ng Ying has all the directions covered, more circular and free form like the natural way an animal moves.
So the system of training is a progression from the linear to the diagonal to the circular and then free form. In a nut shell (but in reality, a lot more complicated than that):
The Sup Ji strategy is to block, get in and then get out.
The Baat Gwa strategy is not to block, but to get out and then get back in.
The Ng Ying strategy is to roll with the punches, defense and attack became one.
Of course it is not so clear cut but that is the general idea, from the cross (or the square) to the baat gwa, to the circle, to free form or no form.
Hi,
Any other thought’s on the baat gwa, is it only used to map out footwork directions or is it also used as a guide for the hand and feet techniques in defense and attack etc.?
KF Fighter…
We also call the directions of the swings the arm makes bagua sao…
again the lines represent the directions the punches go…
They can have many different fists or open hand techniques…
I usually say numer 9 is a straight line representing a straight punch/palm etc…
KF Fighter, what ma do you practice…?
Joe
Hi,
I practice mainly wing chun, but according to my research most if not all of the southern kung fu systems such as Wing chun, fujian white crane, white tiger, and quite possibly even hung gar have identical universal combat principles such as the baat gwa concept even though they may technically express them differently.
Hi,
I practice mainly wing chun, but according to my research most if not all of the southern kung fu systems such as Wing chun, fujian white crane, white tiger, and quite possibly even hung gar have identical universal combat principles such as the baat gwa concept even though they may technically express them differently.
KF Fighter…
I agree, most of the Southern Systems have some similarities even thoght are built on a different foundation…
Hung gar seems to be the style or base from which many of these took form, they have the swings, the short strikes, the pidgeon toe stances… Hung gar to me seems to be a combo of many movements and theories once leaving Shaolin…
If alot of the legends are true… Hung Gar must have been a way to try and save alot of the techniques from Shaolin…
Thats why I picture Shaolin Kung Fu (of the real and older Shaolin) looking like Hung Gar…
Joe