I noticed a few talking about the pelvis positioning and thought that might make for a new discussion topic.
Ok! My thoughts!
The tuck of the pelvis is just that. A tuck to connect the lower/upper and straighten the spine. A good description of how I was shown to do this would be as if you were leaning against a desk. The flat area is all thats needed. I read that a lot of people really thrust the pelvis forward but for me this causes the leaning back effect. Your pelvis and not dead locked when tucked so if you needed a bit more pevlis power all you have to do is press a bit more or less when needed.
I don’t emphasize the tuck- I think it’s easy to lift yourself out of your own stance by using too much rectus.
IMHO, the appearance of the tuck comes from getting the pelvis slightly in front of the femoral heads, such that the force can be transmitted from pelvis to and from the floor. Essentially, the alignment is a very small bow and arrow stance.
I agree with you both. Pelvis position serves to unite the lower and upper body, as well as to align the body in the best possible configuration to absorb/disperse and project force. Too much tilt, and you are leaning back. Too little, and you are top-heavy (too tall).
Most certainly since the Dan Tien (apologies for spelling) is located there, and the middle of the pelvis serves as the connecting point for the upper and lower bodies, I find that my movement forward usually starts there as well, rather than in the foot or even in the knee. [Jokes about being “led” by the pelvis notwithstanding… I don’t want to be sued either.]
I dont work on the pelvis-dont fully understand it yet.I just concentrate on keeping my “head up to the sky” and pushing down to the ground when i am in the stance.
I have also heard that by sucking in the stomach and clenching the buttocks encourages the pelvis tilt -but im not too sure!
AndrewS u wrote "the alignment is a very small bow and arrow stance."Can u explain this term(sorry if this is a stupid qstn) what is the bow/arrow etc?
70/30 front weighted stance- the classic shotokan down block pose, a standard CMA posture, or escrima’s natural balanced stance (maybe a tad largoish).
Basically get into a low horse stance. Have someone push your shoulder so the force goes into the floor and you can hold the postion relaxed without leaning. Now turn your hips over to face the direction of the push, maintaining the aligments which allow force to go in the ground. You are in a front stance. Keeping the pressure there, shift your weight slowly to your back leg. The angle of the hip on pelvis will close, but the alignment should stay the same. This hip alignment will allow you to put force in the ground in a chasing horse, and is kinda present in both hips in C2 when taking force from the front. (Drill credit belongs to Mike Sigman).
my sifu once said “wing chun makes you a great lover” … its all in the pelvis baby!
all pelvic jokes aside, i think a large amount of wing chun comes from the pelvis. pushing it forward while keeping the torso straight moves the entire upper body forward - in a very short amount of time. this can generate a lot of force and utilizes some of the most powerful muscles in the body (quads/glutes/calves).
if the pelvis is kept forward and the spine straight, it creates a direct link of bone structure from the ground to the shoulder. and this is exactly what the three hands of wing chun need to be effective.
if the stance is kept slightly low, pushing the pelvis forward can provide the forward momentum needed to take a step - as opposed to the normal falling forward type steps we take all the time when walking. since you dont have to wait for gravity, this lends itself towards a quicker and less telegraphed step - not to mention much more rooted as you are not falling foward, but rather pushing/pulling yourself forward. all the steps i know of (between the wooden dummy, 3 hand forms, pole, and what i know of the knives) can be powered by this mechanic - either pushing the pelvis forward, or retracting it backwards. the keeping of the pelvis forward to align the spine in SLT is that same energy - just in the forward position.
I dont see any need to push the hip forward, or down as some mentioned. If you relax it and let gravity do its thing then thats important IMHO.
Tensing it by any means, (ie pushing to achieve the tilt) can result in loss of movement; which due to lack of sensitivity to minute forces (that are only able to be detected when completely relaxed) means your reactions and ability to respond with footwork is always going to be 2 steps behind (no pun intended).
I agree wiht Jim that spine straight, and linking of upper and lower body are relevent factors that contribute to generation of force through body mass. As to my hip i try to relax it and allow it to freely move any direction once i FEEL that need to move.
Good thread! How many of you are using the hip to generate power? I have seen lots of WCK people basically “lock in” the hips with the forward tilt and then never “unlock” in order to produce any power from the hips. I used to be one of them. Now I have learned to “lock” and “unlock” the hips at will in order to produce an added “whipping” power in all my techniques. It has made a significant difference for me.
No locking. The hip should be alive, loose, and mobile, analogous to the shoulder.
I think the mechanic you describe- using the pelvis as the handle of a whip- comes up more in Biu Tze. I think it can be dangerous if you don’t have good control over the situation, and prefer SNT mechanics (which also use hip but work from higher up, IMHO).
locking the hip is no different than the tensing that goes on when your punch lands (and usually happens around the same time). its just happening lower down the chain of body structure, and also allows for more leg power.
IMHO, this is no different than SLT mechanics. there are no separate sets of mechanics in wing chun. everything in wing chun is a building process - what you have gets improved and refined.
locking the hip is no different than the tensing that goes on when your punch lands (and usually happens around the same time). its just happening lower down the chain of body structure, and also allows for more leg power.
How does the tensing allow for more power? Isnt WC based on relaxation?
Pelvis, pelvis,…
IMHO
when one feel power often it has no power.
linking to the earth is good but doesn’t link to the heaven there is no oxigen. are you going extreme?
Too true Hendrik, ironic that some people come to learn to feel powerfull through martial arts. Yet when you can generate power, your realise you just use it, no need to reassure you’ve got what you have before you utilize.
Somthing about trust in what you do instead of the mind set “ok i’ve tenced that muscle now i know i can use it!” …why bother? Just use it! (of cource depends on how you generate force too)
If one stop breathing before generate power or tensing the pelvis before deliver or root to the gound. that has gone extreme.
What good is stoping breathing feeling having the explosive power when the fact is the body was induced into interup of oxigen and blood circulation… one got injury.
what good is tensing and tucking the pelvis to line everything up to make the back straight… while the fact is now pelvis has become the weaks link of the body since it “link” up the upper and lower body. The “hard” link will break first when a strong force inject into the system . Not to mention, the body now become a dead beam which connect to the ground but what if condition change and one needs to change direction…IMHO.
Originally posted by S.Teebas I dont see any need to push the hip forward, or down as some mentioned. If you relax it and let gravity do its thing then thats important IMHO.
Does this mean no “ting yu” for your pelvic/hip/spinal alignment? Or is it more an exception to the active “push” descriptor?
Now I have learned to “lock” and “unlock” the hips at will in order to produce an added “whipping” power in all my techniques. It has made a significant difference for me.