Originally posted by kj
[B]
Does this mean no “ting yu” for your pelvic/hip/spinal alignment? Or is it more an exception to the active “push” descriptor?
Regards,
Hi KJ,
There’s no tension in the pelvis as I understand ting yu. Some of the previous descriptions sound as if they are describing something else that is not my understanding of proper Wing Chun structure.
I think Phenix is correct.
Regards,
Originally posted by John Weiland
There’s no tension in the pelvis as I understand ting yu. Some of the previous descriptions sound as if they are describing something else that is not my understanding of proper Wing
Thanks, John. From S. Teebas’ post, I was unclear if they utilize ting yu or not, and hope to better understand.
Regards,
HI all,
So some tuck the hip more than others. What effect does this have on your structure as you go through the range?
I noted a couple things while playing around with the hip. When I excessivly stick out the hip, or butt, it is easy to feal the effect on the structure. It is weak and disconnected. As it lines up, the body seems to get stronger. If I exagerate it forward, I notice the body says back a bit, but that the body has a lot of spring in it, atleast if the knees are clamped in. The body seems ready to do something. If I relax it a bit so it is slightly forward, I think it is solid but maybe not as strong. What do other people sense from moving the hip around and how does it affect them?
Did I read Phenix correctly, are you saying not to tuck it up but to keep it more nutrual untill you have a need to tuck it?
Tom
Originally posted by S.Teebas
[B] TjD says:
How does the tensing allow for more power? Isnt WC based on relaxation? [/B]
its definately based on relaxation, but how well can you punch without tensing some muscles? nothing will move - unless your chi powers are much greater than mine 
pushing the hip forward moves the upper body forward - i dont see any difference between this and using shoulder muscles to move the arm forward to punch.
Kj says:
Does this mean no “ting yu” for your pelvic/hip/spinal alignment? Or is it more an exception to the active “push” descriptor?
Ting yu – Back straight, pelvis rolled under slightly so that each vertebrae is stacked one on top of the other. The spine is completely aligned. The upper body should not be leaning back nor is the head tilted forward. Maintaining the head in the right position and proper execution of ting yu is a prerequisite for dung tao
Hi KJ,
I found this description on one page your group has written and can say i agree. I guess the confusion comes about from the tension issue as others have also mentioned. Sometimes i see people forcing the hips forward, rather than aligning and letting the strucure utilize gravity which is why i mentioned it.
As i understand it, tension should be avoided at all costs, but this doesnt mean muscle is not used, just never forced.
A large part of keeping the body free from tension and linked is the use of Tai Gong. This is a large emphasis on the maintinance of structure from my current understanding.
TJD Says:
…but how well can you punch without tensing some muscles?
Don’t know, how well can force be received in a relaxed state compared to a tense one? One thing I know for sure is tense muscle absorbs force more than relaxed muscles do. So wouldn’t a tense muscle in you arm hamper the transmission of force through your structure?
…pushing the hip forward moves the upper body forward - I don’t see any difference between this and using shoulder muscles to move the arm forward to punch.
I’m pretty meticulous when it comes to details; well I try to be due my understanding of WC being a system that’s fundamental on them. So words like ‘push’ for me mean something totally different than rotate, or reposition. Push indicated to me forced, which indicates structural deficiency due to above listed reasons. Maybe I’m just being pedantic.
Originally posted by tparkerkfo
[B]HI all,
Did I read Phenix correctly, are you saying not to tuck it up but to keep it more nutrual untill you have a need to tuck it?
Tom [/B]
Tom,
all of these has to do with breathing, body linking… anything forcefull is not nature.
there are two path. one is relax and inhale.. one is connect the ground and exhale. …
trying to keep only one of this as correct is not nature. IMHO
Hendrik
Originally posted by S.Teebas
I found this description on one page your group has written and can say i agree. I guess the confusion comes about from the tension issue as others have also mentioned. Sometimes i see people forcing the hips forward, rather than aligning and letting the strucure utilize gravity which is why i mentioned it.
Hi S. That is exactly the clarification I was looking for.
I am not familiar with the term “tai gong” in this context - can you explain?
Regards,
P.S. I found and really enjoyed this. This website and essay are wonderful.
Originally posted by S.Teebas
Maybe I’m just being pedantic.
No. There is nothing trivial about that kind of specificity and detail.
am not familiar with the term “tai gong” in this context - can you explain?
Tai gong is the internal contraction starting at the anus. I know not many WC lineages do this. It helps link, relax and co-ordinate the body. It becomes less physical over time, and more mental once the feeling is familiar/ refined.
Thanks for the compliment on the schools web page, maybe its time I contribute something! 
Aha, I know the concept, but had not heard the term before. Thanks, S.
And yes, you should write something. 
Regards,
Originally posted by S.Teebas
[B]
Tai gong is the internal contraction starting at the anus. [/B]
This can cause blood presure to get high or the problem of fever… any forcefull practice is no good.
Correct-No contracting needed-except in the bathroom
and for some very specific kundalini-for which you have to know what you are doing and is not relevant to basic wing chun development.
Originally posted by S.Teebas
Tai gong is the internal contraction starting at the anus. I know not many WC lineages do this. It helps link, relax and co-ordinate the body. It becomes less physical over time, and more mental once the feeling is familiar/ refined.
how does contracting the anus help link relax and coordinate the body? i don’t really see the correlation. does it modify bone structure in any way?
or is it more just for qigong like health benefits?
Originally posted by TjD
[B]
how does contracting the anus help link relax and coordinate the body? i don’t really see the correlation. does it modify bone structure in any way?
or is it more just for qigong like health benefits? [/B]
in the begining of practiced for elementry
it is after one relax and link into one pice, then while exhale. the anus will lifted… not lifting and cause relax but relax and will cause lifting action.
forcing to lift certainly will feel the body seem to be unite in to one but that cause un nature or stop breathing which defy the purpose…
It’s sort of a broken-telephone transmission of Hei (Qi) theory designed to close the circut and connect the body much like touching the tongue to the roof of the mouth.
One of the few structural details most sifu won’t want to actually check 
Phenix says:
This can cause blood presure to get high or the problem of fever… any forcefull practice is no good.
Agreed that forcing it is wrong, its quite specific. Not sure that doing it correctly is bad, because SiGung TST advocates it and he seems to be ok after 50 or so years of it.
TjD says:
how does contracting the anus help link relax and coordinate the body? I don’t really see the correlation. does it modify bone structure in any way?
I’m not an expert on it, but what I think it does is bring awareness to the lower half of the body (also helps get the force received to the floor). This allows the body to relax because it feels supported to a greater extent. Relaxation brings more freedom of movement to the joints and opens up the centre (which tai gong also does when correctly linked up to the top of the head). …don’t take my word for it, I’m sill trying to understand it exactly.
Yuanfen says:
Correct-No contracting needed-except in the bathroom
and for some very specific kundalini-for which you have to know what you are doing and is not relevant to basic wing chun development.
Yuanfen, can you elaborate on the kundalini thoughts on this subject? When you say basic WC development, are you inferring it comes into play later on?
Agreed that forcing it is wrong, its quite specific. Not sure that doing it correctly is bad, because SiGung TST advocates it and he seems to be ok after 50 or so years of it.
My sigung advocated it as well, but I think its the method of how to do it that’s being cautioned, not Tai Gong itself.
All this talk is giving me anal itch.
S. Teebas-(since you asked-I reply in honest good faith) :serious discussion of topics can easily get trivialized
on net forums- witness one of the most recent wisecracking posts on this very thread.
You are in the TST line and I defer to him on how you do it or should.
There is a time and place for things and the development of the detail.
generally- for relative beginners I always suggest doing things
“naturally” with minimal tension and not locking anything.
Good alignments including gravitational alignment take time in development. Not doing slt properly and for some time can dvelop a poor structure and result in being easily thrown or pulled or swept.
Rgarding the kundalini framework- my kundalini teacher is 93
years old and remains quite flexible in Chennai, India. Also. the kundalini principles
are present in esoteric buddhism and as Hendrik pointed out in a different thread Buddhists and Daoists often take different name calling paths to some of the same principles. I dont always know the Chinese terms that Hendrik uses but essential buddhist principles are universal not Chinese or Indian despite politics and nationalism.
I try to avoid useless arguing with “materialists” about different models of “energy”. There are many different meanings of “chi” but relevant to martial activity- the energy connection is an important one. Chinese use the term chi- kundalini folks- prana and more directly “shakti”- a female principle- whereas “shakta”
is a male principle and involves male -muscle strength. Most western physical culture systems develop the yangish-shakta more. Wing chun involves balance and therefore the development of the yinnish-shakti-
the female principle is important more so than in many other CMA or MA. Once there is proper enrichment and storage of prana in manipura( approximately-dan tien)- then other techniques for sending the shakti can be done. I dont know whther TST thinks like that- but I am not in his line- and I am quite comfortable with my understanding. The sending of shakti to the right place at the right time can help with appropriate functions including minimizing injury. Too quickly raising the shakti and tensing you know what
can affect blood pressure- its testable- just use a blood pressure kit and do your tensing and you will see.
Raising shakti straight to the top of the head too early can result
in even greater dangers- to mental health even… in kundalini analysis.
You mention TST doing the tensing for 50 yaers- if memory serves-
no malice intended on my part…
I understand that TST has had bouts of high BP- but causality
is a problematic subject.
I dont know whether I am being clear enough ina net post- it isnt easy- as our threads including the trolling and the anonymities
often show. Joy chaudhuri ((Gotta go and teach wing chun)