A question,
what do you think about the characterisics of Wck jing?
Is it a single vector type or complex vectors type or both?
Hi Hendrik,
HS writes:
what do you think about the characterisics of Wck jing?
Is it a single vector type or complex vectors type or both? HS
Well, I don’t know about vectors, but as I see it the YJKYM should allow us to express ging (force) instantly and powerfully in every direction. Is this what you are referring to? Or do you mean when I expess ging (force)in application? In that situation, I’d say that the expression is complex (a linear motion typically involves twisting, for example). How about your $0.02? TN
Terence
Hi Terence,
This is just an open question to see how everyone’s views. And hopefully accelerate the discussion on Jing. nothing particular.
See, Jing has static mode (which related to structure in static) and Jing in dynamic mode (which related to flow of action). certainly the training in static should support the dynamic however knowing static doesn’t by defaut know the dynamic.
Say throwing one punch is more or less a single dominant vector action. while Mun sau is a complex vector action which involve changes of path of Jing…
If Tan sau is the ultimate as some claim then tan sau has to be fully all direction dynamic. but not a karate block, single dominant vector block type of technics. which doesn’t support the claim.
Can Tan Sau the ultimate? Based on the technical component, it can’t be.
An example, say the Biu Jee set or equavelent. in the asia forum there are constant debate about why Biu Jee set doesn’t go out of door and dangerous… all sort of ideas.
However, I see Biu Jee type of technics very differently, I see it as it is a long distance technics and the key to effective long distance technics is fast, focus, and most important adaptive.
for example, when one launching a long range missile, if the missile is dumb. then it better be very fast strong. but then that still subject to be intercep and destroy in the sky… if the missile is smart and adaptive then the chance of hitting the target and not being intercept is much higher.
so, that also related to whether WCK is Shao LIn or not due to the dna of Jing. is it discrete or continous?
see, if WCK is agile and advance like water, then wck has to be able to change jing or force vector on the fly based on sensing data. It should be very adaptive instead of having fomulars…
because everything is changing…IMHO
For me, one hand neutral other force and one hand attacking is not good enough because the white crane did that ,the soughtern kuen like white eye browse… the mantis… alots did that.
it is like a digital watch which show a second at one time. If wck is similar to water… then it has to be analog watch. it sweep every instance be it a split of micro second… and every instance can change. In the technical term of DSP, analog has no quantization erro..
I am not against anything or anyone,
but technical speaking, the time and space concept traing is similar to my kyokushin kai 3 step sparing and then one step sparing experience. But when one get up to the K tournament, everything is so dynamic and need to change direction in the middel of action. especially those while spar with those thai boxers… very adaptive… IMHO
You might think Hendrik is crazy again.
But nah, you know, we need to go as far as how many dynamic jing change can there be in order to “know” a technic.
Since Grand master Ip Man’s activating the vision of WCK and done a very good job, continous vision of paradigm shift must be continous to bring out the best of WCK. I always has expectation in WCK and even hight expectation for the next generation WCK practioners. And I belive and confident WCK and everyone can deliver. IMHO,
Hendrik
Hendrik sez:
However, I see Biu Jee type of technics very differently, I see it as it is a long distance technics and the key to effective long distance technics is fast, focus, and most important adaptive.
Hendrik-
I think that we have a substantial difference of opinion.
Biu jee can be effective- period.
Not just at long distance.
joy
Hendrik-
I think that we have a substantial difference of opinion.
Biu jee can be effective- period.
Not just at long distance.
Sure, It can.
when it is adaptive.
long distance is just a sum of short distance.
long time is just a collection of lots of instants.
But some how "long distances’ has to be address for a totallity of view.
that’s all. IMHO
Hendrik
Originally posted by Phenix
However, I see Biu Jee type of technics very differently, I see it as it is a long distance technics and the key to effective long distance technics is fast, focus, and most important adaptive.
Biu Jee trains long distance strikes, most importantly it trains to go from one long distance strike to another long distance strike at lightning speed. You point your jing at one spot and suddenly point another jing at some other spot, with maximum flow and accuracy.
fao kiu
“if WCK is agile and advance like water, then wck has to be able to change jing or force vector on the fly based on sensing data. It should be very adaptive instead of having fomulars…
because everything is changing…IMHO” – Phenix
Hendrik I followed most of what you wrote but could you please explain in more detail what is meant by everything is changing and how is it that the formula does not address this issue?
Re: fao kiu
Hendrik I followed most of what you wrote but could you please explain in more detail what is meant by everything is changing and how is it that the formula does not address this issue? [/B][/QUOTE]
A kick is often not just a kick. a punch is often not just a punch. a kick or punch can change in the middle of its launch. …
Jing vector can change direction while contact…
No one will stand still to wait for other to counter attack
How is a general formula going to predict the future or the changes which is not happen yet which based on the depth of the “kungfu” of the oponent and the instant condition?
Not to mention the kuit of " Ni bu lai wo bu fa" (mandarin) or “if you don’t come I will not issue” so decision or response was made after" sense " or “touch”. thus everything is changing adapting to condition…
Thus, our ancestor give WCK a great “GPS” the sensory or feeling mechanism. They know… it doesn’t matter how you change. I track the heck out of you real time.
Hendrik
Originally posted by yylee
[B]
Biu Jee trains long distance strikes, most importantly it trains to go from one long distance strike to another long distance strike at lightning speed. You point your jing at one spot and suddenly point another jing at some other spot, with maximum flow and accuracy. [/B]
LOL.
only one thing can do that lightning speed-----
thing without mass, and that is Yee.
Thus advance martial artist like Wang Xian-Chay…Sun Lu Tang… can bounce off others via Yee to change the Jing vector at instant of contact. IMHO
IM wild dream , If 1960 is the introduction about sensing … then 2003 is the introduction about changing jing vector while contact… Beyond the shape.
Too boring to do those mechanical Tan Da, Pak DA… but you touch me you out. Ha ha ha 
It will be fun is someday all WCK people can do that. same with tan da pak da…
fao kiu
"A kick is often not just a kick. a punch is often not just a punch. a kick or punch can change in the middle of its launch. …
Jing vector can change direction while contact…
No one will stand still to wait for other to counter attack
How is a general formula going to predict the future or the changes which is not happen yet which based on the depth of the “kungfu” of the oponent and the instant condition?" – Hendrik
Not sure I followed that entirely but a kick or a punch might be able to change its direct line but a kick will always be a kick (using the human leg for attack or counter attack)and a punch will always be a punch(using the human arm for attack or counter attack). That being the case if a formula takes into account all the plausible lines of direction (ability to move the arm or leg in any given manner) would that not allow a formula to work. I don’t claim to know a formula but I know that formulas work on constants and the one thing that remains constant in this equation is a persons ability to throw a punch or a kick at an opponent is a limited number of movements that over time can be summized and addressed without fear of change as you put it.
Re: fao kiu
Originally posted by canglong
[B]"
Not sure I followed that entirely but a kick or a punch might be able to change its direct line but a kick will always be a kick (using the human leg for attack or counter attack)and a punch will always be a punch(using the human arm for attack or counter attack). That being the case if a formula takes into account all the plausible lines of direction (ability to move the arm or leg in any given manner) would that not allow a formula to work. I don’t claim to know a formula but I know that formulas work on constants and the one thing that remains constant in this equation is a persons ability to throw a punch or a kick at an opponent is a limited number of movements that over time can be summized and addressed without fear of change as you put it. [/B]
In the 1970’s lots of fighting theory against the Thai from CMA of HongKong and SEA…
There is an old song in 1980’s
…One night in Bangkok makes a hard man humble
Not much between despair and ecstasy
One night in Bangkok and the tough guys tumble
Can’t be too careful with your company
I can feel the devil walking next to me…
hmmm
Confucious said,
“To learn and to practice what is learned time and again is pleasure, is it not? To have friends come from afar is happiness, is it not? To be unperturbed when not appreciated by others is gentlemanly, is it not?”Link
Re: hmmm
Originally posted by canglong
Confucious said,
“To learn and to practice what is learned time and again is pleasure, is it not? To have friends come from afar is happiness, is it not? To be unperturbed when not appreciated by others is gentlemanly, is it not?”Link
Indeed.
But Confusious had traveled, see, and experience before settle down to teach…
no jing
If you are walking with the devil what does that say about you?
Pleasures, happiness, teaching and sharing are to be enjoyed before during and after travel.
“In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.”
- Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
There can be no jing without proper understanding of a kick or a punch.
Re: no jing
“If you are walking with the devil what does that say about you?”
Why use a lyrics to judge the messenger?
"There can be no jing without proper understanding of a kick or a punch. "
"no water " without a proper understanding of the containers?
what is the proper shape of water?
–Why use a lyrics to judge the messenger? --Hendrik
Messenger of what???
Cangalong,
well, among other things, it means you liked a rather good rock opera from the early eighties which happened to be an Abba side project (I think).
Personally, I find the idea of walking with Abba far more disturbing than that of walking with the devil.
Andrew
Hendrik- shape of water?
Some ice cubes would be fine if Phoenix hits 120 degrees in the shade in the summer. Shade can be a very hypothetical thing in some parts.
Hendrik- shape of water?
Some ice cubes would be fine if Phoenix hits 120 degrees in the shade in the summer. Shade can be a very hypothetical thing in some parts.
Originally posted by yuanfen
Hendrik- shape of water?
Some ice cubes would be fine if Phoenix hits 120 degrees in the shade in the summer. Shade can be a very hypothetical thing in some parts.
what is the shape of ice cube?