Lik? Jin? what are these stuffs?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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I started this thread yesterday but some how it was missing this morning.

So here I start again.

Some says, to fajing one needs

coordinated function of awareness, breath, ground reaction force (rooting), muscle contraction and tendinous recoil;

Is that true? is that adequate to tell the story or is it too general to a point that it doesnt tell much?

What is Lik? what is Jin?

PS. Ed, I saw your reply last night but the whole thread is gone this morning.
To reply to your post, I start this thread intending to examine into what the heck are these stuffs and how the general public think; instead of just words and interpretation or guess.

IMHO, these stuffs need to be examine very closely, because we might not do SLT / WCK at all with the present day general view.

if we dont know what they are we dont know how to get it. IMHO.

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[QUOTE=Hendrik;925965]
PS. Ed, I saw your reply last night but the whole thread is gone this morning.
To reply to your post, I start this thread intending to examine into what the heck are these stuffs and how the general public think; instead of just words and interpretation or guess.
[/QUOTE]

No offense but you are never clear yourself about how you think. You obfuscate the issue more than any other poster.

So how can you be complaining about other definitions of Jin not being good enough and ask for more details?

People gave their definitions and I may not agree fully with them but they were a LOT more clear than you ever were - even if they weren’t adequate for you.

You had an answer:
“coordinated function of awareness, breath, ground reaction force (rooting), muscle contraction and tendinous recoil”

If you think it’s not enough, you should offer a better one.

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[QUOTE=Edmund;926039]No offense but you are never clear yourself about how you think. You obfuscate the issue more than any other poster.

So how can you be complaining about other definitions of Jin not being good enough and ask for more details?

People gave their definitions and I may not agree fully with them but they were a LOT more clear than you ever were - even if they weren’t adequate for you.

You had an answer:
“coordinated function of awareness, breath, ground reaction force (rooting), muscle contraction and tendinous recoil”

If you think it’s not enough, you should offer a better one.[/QUOTE]

No offense,

May be you are correct.

However, may be you dont comprehend my posts because I communicate in a different way?

as for this post, My intend on this thread is clearly posts.

As for Jin and Lik, I would love to see everyone’s view because there is lots of ways to describe the same thing and I am not neccesary to have a better one.

So, if you like to discuss, lets not start with accusation on others but let’s focus on sharing what is Lik and Jin.

No offense.

Best Regards

4

[QUOTE=Hendrik;925965]What is Lik? what is Jin?

…

if we dont know what they are we dont know how to get it. IMHO.[/QUOTE]

I dont know what lik is, or what jin is, but then my daughter doenst know what walking is, consciousness it, talking it etc etc but she seems to get it fine.

She doenst seem to need to study it, to learn defenitions, to quote wise sayings, or any of the above to walk, talk or posess consciousness.

Since when do you have to understand something to poseess it?

Since never.

But it is possible that people that dont possess something will intelectualise and fantasize about how they could posess it…

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[QUOTE=Genetic;926089]I dont know what lik is, or what jin is, but then my daughter doenst know what walking is, consciousness it, talking it etc etc but she seems to get it fine.

She doenst seem to need to study it, to learn defenitions, to quote wise sayings, or any of the above to walk, talk or posess consciousness.

Since when do you have to understand something to poseess it?

Since never.

But it is possible that people that dont possess something will intelectualise and fantasize about how they could posess it…[/QUOTE]

You have a great point, however, that is the point I hear over and over again in the East and the West ---- keep doing it and somedays WAH LA one will have it.

as an exmaple, consciousness, one can study different kinds of state with the brain wave monitor.
and
those who has real training in meditaion can enter into different conscious state or call for different Brain wave at will.

Thus, it is nothing to do with intelectualize. it is todo with knowing what one intent to get/do/arive and have a process to do it. It certainly not that Keep Doing it and someday’s WALLA…

sure there are lots of meditators think they know but can one do it under the brain wave monitor to evoke a specific state?

Another example is

WCK’s uniqueness is fast accelearte Jin.
as for wrestle’s uniqueness is take down…etc.

Imagine, when the WCner who knows nothing about thier uniqueness trying to compete with a wrestle who is well train in thier uniqueness, what is the outcome need not be said.

Just some thoughts.

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[QUOTE=Hendrik;926092]You have a great point, however, that is the point I hear over and over again in the East and the West ---- keep doing it and somedays WAH LA one will have it.

as an exmaple, consciousness, one can study different kinds of state with the brain wave monitor.
and
those who has real training in meditaion can enter into different conscious state or call for different Brain wave at will.

Thus, it is nothing to do with intelectualize. it is todo with knowing what one intent to get/do/arive and have a process to do it. It certainly not that Keep Doing it and someday’s WALLA…

sure there are lots of meditators think they know but can one do it under the brain wave monitor to evoke a specific state?

Another example is

WCK’s uniqueness is fast accelearte Jin.
as for wrestle’s uniqueness is take down…etc.

Imagine, when the WCner who knows nothing about thier uniqueness trying to compete with a wrestle who is well train in thier uniqueness, what is the outcome need not be said.

Just some thoughts.[/QUOTE]

I still have no idea what jin or lik are, but do you think that means that I dont know how to apply energy despite my practice?

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[QUOTE=Hendrik;926086]No offense,

May be you are correct.

However, may be you dont comprehend my posts because I communicate in a different way?
[/QUOTE]

Probably! But I don’t think you should complain about other people definitions when you can’t communicate yours.

All I can glean from your definitions is you have to stand there, close your eyes and sing 80’s music to Asian p0rn stars. Forgive me if I didn’t catch all the details.

[QUOTE=Hendrik;926086]
As for Jin and Lik, I would love to see everyone’s view because there is lots of ways to describe the same thing and I am not neccesary to have a better one.
[/QUOTE]

“coordinated function of awareness, breath, ground reaction force (rooting), muscle contraction and tendinous recoil”

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[QUOTE=Genetic;926094]I still have no idea what jin or lik are, but do you think that means that I dont know how to apply energy despite my practice?[/QUOTE]

You might know how to apply energy despite of your practice.
However,
Evidentally, the Classical TCMA has different types of Jin and Lik.
They are very specific.

So the issues are is what we do accord with what the style mean to do?

9

Probably! But I don’t think you should complain about other people definitions when you can’t communicate yours.

All I can glean from your definitions is you have to stand there, close your eyes and sing 80’s music to Asian p0rn stars. Forgive me if I didn’t catch all the details. ------

Thanks for your good opinion and sharing what is reside in your mind.

“coordinated function of awareness, breath, ground reaction force (rooting), muscle contraction and tendinous recoil” -----

Great.

10

Lik and Gin

In WC I have not studied or read many things concerning the different types of Lik and Jin…

Can you please share the titles the various types of Lik and Jin Hedrick

In WC there are 8 types of Ging or Geng!

Geng or ging = energy

  1. bau ja geng = explode power
  2. chi geng = sticking power
  3. keng geng = listening power
  4. juun geng = drilling power
  5. jek jip geng = direct power / gan jip geng = indirect power
  6. yaan geng or daai geng = guiding power
  7. lin jip geng = connecting power
  8. choung geng = aggressive power

If this is what you mean by Jin well there you have it…

But I do not think thats what your looking for?

I know in mantis power force is called Gun Lik…

Geng or ging = energy; the 8 types of Wing Chun energy

Lik = muscular strength
according to Fong Definitions

Exactly what do you mean by :

Jin and Lik

Wing Chun Glossaries:

http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.WingChunGlossary#J

http://www.fongswingchun.com/terms.html

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[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;926146]In WC I have not studied or read many things concerning the different types of Lik and Jin…

Can you please share the titles the various types of Lik and Jin Hedrick

In WC there are 8 types of Ging or Geng!

Geng or ging = energy

  1. bau ja geng = explode power
  2. chi geng = sticking power
  3. keng geng = listening power
  4. juun geng = drilling power
  5. jek jip geng = direct power / gan jip geng = indirect power
  6. yaan geng or daai geng = guiding power

Jin and Lik …[/QUOTE]

IMHO,

1, The so called 8 types of Gings above is a made up of modern days. and some or the translation is in correct and dont make much sense.

2, these above type of definition and "coordinated function of awareness, breath, ground reaction force (rooting), muscle contraction and tendinous recoil " are very worry some. Because IMHO it is misleading.

3, everyone almost can qoute the above and make a big elaboration /speculation on these, however, these stuffs doesnt contribute much certainty. Thus, it open up to different intepretation where every one think they are right and argue with ego… and non conclusive.

4, you and some here might question why am I trash these stuffs including the ROOT and Internal stuffs which you posts. Well, the answer is simply that these are a dead trap like a mirage in the desert. because they were distorted in a big time.

it is like the old pop song…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSTlLYMo02w&feature=related

Thus, I have heard, in the ancient time,

To learn about Lik and Jin and Qi clearly are not difficult at all from the sifu knows what these are.

the name of the game is to perfect them so that they become a part of one’s life and become more and more effortless when one evoke them. That is the depth of Kung Fu.

and due to these 24/7/365 practice the unique of WCK will surface.

That is WCK instead of today’s learning Tan Bong Fook… some ch isau and limit one to have to fight in a certain way is WCK.

I could be wrong but that is what I have heard.

Do I know the answers NOPE.
So, Those who read this thread and knows the answer please share.

Best Regards

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[QUOTE=Hendrik;926149]IMHO,

1, The so called 8 types of Gings above is a made up of modern days. and some or the translation is in correct and dont make much sense.

2, these above type of definition and "coordinated function of awareness, breath, ground reaction force (rooting), muscle contraction and tendinous recoil " are very worry some. Because IMHO it is misleading.

3, everyone almost can qoute the above and make a big elaboration /speculation on these, however, these stuffs doesnt contribute much certainty. Thus, it open up to different intepretation where every one think they are right and argue with ego… and non conclusive.

4, you and some here might question why am I trash these stuffs including the ROOT and Internal stuffs which you posts. Well, the answer is simply that these are a dead trap like a mirage in the desert. because they were distorted in a big time.

it is like the old pop song…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSTlLYMo02w&feature=related

Thus, I have heard, in the ancient time,

To learn about Lik and Jin and Qi clearly are not difficult at all from the sifu knows what these are.

the name of the game is to perfect them so that they become a part of one’s life and become more and more effortless when one evoke them. That is the depth of Kung Fu.

and due to these 24/7/365 practice the unique of WCK will surface.

That is WCK instead of today’s learning Tan Bong Fook… some ch isau and limit one to have to fight in a certain way is WCK.[/quote]

Very true.

No you are not wrong.:slight_smile:

You know more than most.

I have a feeling that we will have to wait for them for a long time to give the answer in this forum.:wink:

Meanwhile, I am happy reading your posts that point the finger in the right direction.

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[QUOTE=Hardwork108;926160]

I have a feeling that we will have to wait for them for a long time to give the answer in this forum.:wink:

[/QUOTE]

When spring time cant see sun …

You will suprise lots share this song…

" If Im Ever Going To Get Back"

The rain is knocking at my door,
And I cant see the sun no more,
Im a have to fight my way If I’m ever going to get back get back g-get back.
This is something you cant ignore,
Life is turning into war,
Im a have to fight my way If I’m ever going to get back (hey)…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWclpQLQUFY

or chinese version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Von21YBRuCw

I heard a tale in the past…

The strength of water flow which support the flow is lik.
The flow type is Jin.

The strenght can be generated via pump, water fall…
the Flow type can be forward thrust, downward, upward, spiral…

Without the strength there is no flow, without the flow the strength are not use effectively.

So, in SLT, what kind of strength one generate? how many flow type one creates?
and what kind of strength generation is more suitable to what flow type?

Nope, it is not just that Tan Bong Fook.
it is something that is not visible but known make it WCK… Different Strenght generation and that different flow types.

For powerlifting,

How many ways are there in doing a squat?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_(exercise)

And what is the different between Squat and deadlift?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlift

Different Lik different Jin.

what make one thinks SLT Lik/Jin training is any different?
What make one thinks Just do it naturally without a clear objective will do it right?

Who says just standing there clamp the knees and doing YJKYM with fixing stance and Root deep ?

Root? Fixed?
No Fixed Root, but alive and adaptive.

So, where does Qi comes into the picture? That I let those advance people to continou the story…

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[QUOTE=Hendrik;926164]
So, where does Qi comes into the picture? That I let those advance people to continou the story…[/QUOTE]

My Question is

What is Lik?

What is Ren?

What is Jin?

What is Chi?

You said:

[I]The strength of water flow which support the flow is lik.
The flow type is Jin.

The strenght can be generated via pump, water fall…
the Flow type can be forward thrust, downward, upward, spiral…

Without the strength there is no flow, without the flow the strength are not use effectively.[/I]

My Question is this old chinese tale from a Wing Chun sifu? Is this Wing Chun you are qouting from?

Hendrik said:

To learn about Lik and Jin and Qi clearly are not difficult at all from the sifu knows what these are.

Has your Sifu shared this with you Hendrik? If so how does one perfect Lik,Jin and Qi so that they become a part of one’s life and become more and more effortless when one evoke them?

Please share?

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A good song for those who know the chinese music…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDC1QeM5Pos

…

…

…

well, if YY is here probably he could translate them…

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[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;926338]

My Question is this old chinese tale from a Wing Chun sifu? Is this Wing Chun you are qouting from?

[/QUOTE]

What is more important? whether the description is a fact or where the description is from?

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Yoshiyahu,

why not train more and post less?

you would answer many of your own questions

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[QUOTE=Dale Dugas;926593]Yoshiyahu,

why not train more and post less?

you would answer many of your own questions[/QUOTE]

Christ!

Dale Dugas, you must be psychic as I was just about to give the same advice to you!:eek:

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[QUOTE=Hendrik;926578]What is more important? whether the description is a fact or where the description is from?[/QUOTE]

Well for my point the most important would be the origin. If your desciption is not
WC why are you mixing non-WC sayings in. Its not true WC as you always say!

Question still not answer by Hendrik who always complains about his questions going unanswered!

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[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;926654]Well for my point the most important would be the origin. If your desciption is not
WC why are you mixing non-WC sayings in. Its not true WC as you always say!
[/QUOTE]

   Ok. Thanks for sharing.