Taiji Quan Lun

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Taijiquan and the Internal Martial Arts
1

Here are based on my translation (i’m not added the chinese words)

From Wang Zongyue

Taiji is born from WUJI
Catalyst motion and still, the mother of Yin Yang,
When move he moved apart, when stay still he converge/joined,
No more no less, following the curve and then extend.

People hard so i’m soft, I called it [running], I am in a comfortable position and your opponent in recessive position, i called [attached].
Fast Movement then fast response, slow movement so we do slow response.
Whenever the changes is lot, there is only one principle.
From the familiar to the contact and then gradually going up to the “Dong Jing” ( understanding energy), from “Dong Jing” could lead to “Shen Ming” (enlightenment).

When not diligently practicing for a long time, there will not be suddenly understand.
Xu Ling Ding Jing, Qi Chen Dantian.
No off-centered not leaned against it, suddenly disappeared suddenly came up.
If left Heavy then left must empty, sinking on the right so the right disappeared.
Climbed even higher, fell even more deeply.

Forward even longer, withdrew even more destitute.
One Single Feather can not be added, a fly can not alight.
People don’t know me, but only I know him.
Unbeatable hero, should know about this.
There are different kinds of martial arts, although the forms have a lot of variances.
The Point is not more than the powerful torturing the weak, the slow one is lose from the fastest one.

The Powerful one hit the weak one, slowly hand will lose from the fastest one.
This is natural skill, nothing to do with the skills gained from training.
Remember the words : " 4 Taels deflect 1000 pounds", this is definitely not gain from the rough force/power.
Seeing an very old man can face a group of people, how can be he using speed?
Stand like a scale, move like a wheel.

Sinking to one side then followed by double weighting will be stuck.
Seeing someone who has been practicing for years but can not neutralize, and even controlled his opponent,
Problem of double weighting.
To know this problem should know about Yin Yang.
[Stick/attached] is actually a [running], [running] is actually the [stick/attached]
Yin did not leave Yang, Yang did not leave Yin

Yin Yang restrict each other and support each other (Yin Yang Xiang Ji), that’s actually “Dong Jing”.
After “Dong JIng”,more training more clearly.
Always keep in mind all the time and honed, it will gradually reach the level “of the heart as you wish”.
the basics are essentially leaving yourself and follow your opponent (does not take the initiative, but let the opponent take the initiative), who mistakenly left a close one and chase the far one.
There are the words “little difference, then lost thousands of miles.”
Practitioners should not not pay attention to this, so this discussion is written.

same like chen xin, after the discussion close, i will delete the post.

pls tell me if wanna copy-paste this.

lets discuss

2

From the familiar to the contact and then gradually going up to the “Dong Jing” ( understanding energy), from “Dong Jing” could lead to “Shen Ming” (enlightenment).

Those who have the kung fu will know.

Dong Jin is not understanding energy. in fact it is mislead to refer Dong Jin is understanding energy

Shen Ming is not enlightenment. in fact is it misleading to refer Shen Ming as enlightenment.

3

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003583]Those who have the kung fu will know.[/quote]so you are agreeing that you do not have kung fu…

Dong Jin is not understanding energy. in fact it is mislead to refer Dong Jin is understanding energy

Shen Ming is not enlightenment. in fact is it misleading to refer Shen Ming as enlightenment.
you are man of your wisdom… it is apparent that you do infact, not know. :slight_smile:

4

[QUOTE=uki;1003586]so you are agreeing that you do not have kung fu…
you are man of your wisdom… it is apparent that you do infact, not know. :)[/QUOTE]

if you disagree with me, share your view. instead of go off topic.

5

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003583]Those who have the kung fu will know.

Dong Jin is not understanding energy. in fact it is mislead to refer Dong Jin is understanding energy

Shen Ming is not enlightenment. in fact is it misleading to refer Shen Ming as enlightenment.[/QUOTE]

Yes, i agree with “Those who have kungfu will know”.

From the familiar to the contact and then gradually going up to the “Dong Jing” ( understanding energy), from “Dong Jing” could lead to “Shen Ming” (enlightenment).
When not diligently practicing for a long time, there will not be suddenly understand.

IF you undsertood about that quote above you should know what is Dong JIn means.Dong Jin is not something that you try to know how poeple is, but is to know how is ourself. So, this Dong JIn is refer too know (undsertanding) our energy, not the enemy.

it’s wasting time to discuss enlightenment if don’t know what dong jin is.

6

IMHO,

1, your proposal is too complicated and pointing towards confusion.

2, Dong Jin and Shen Ming are extremely simple because they are a nature phenomenon. If one has an experience teacher to coach one, one can recognized what is it in a minute. and only after then one can practice.

It is a wasting of time to practice diligently without first recognized what they are.

This is also a taboo of chinese martial art where one purposely not teaching others but keep asking others to practice diligently and keep them in low skill level.

The other taboo of chinese martial art is keep arguing on false theory and end up in qouting 1000 books but cant recognized what is what even if one place the phenomenon in front of one’s eyes.

3, Shen Ming is not enlightenment. and in fact nothing to do with Enlightenment at all.

4, the general translation of Dong Jin as understanding energy and Shen Ming as enlightenment is actually a totally misleading similar to asking someone to find the hair of the tutle shell or horn of the rabit which are non exist.

Certainly, if one have never know it one will not be able to point clearly on what are those.

any advance player here likes to comment or sharing on the Dong Jin and Shen Ming?

[QUOTE=charlyws;1003610]Yes, i agree with “Those who have kungfu will know”.

From the familiar to the contact and then gradually going up to the “Dong Jing” ( understanding energy), from “Dong Jing” could lead to “Shen Ming” (enlightenment).
When not diligently practicing for a long time, there will not be suddenly understand.

IF you undsertood about that quote above you should know what is Dong JIn means.Dong Jin is not something that you try to know how poeple is, but is to know how is ourself. So, this Dong JIn is refer too know (undsertanding) our energy, not the enemy.

it’s wasting time to discuss enlightenment if don’t know what dong jin is.[/QUOTE]

7

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003617]IMHO,

1, your proposal is too complicated and pointing towards confusion.

2, Dong Jin and Shen Ming are extremely simple because they are a nature phenomenon. If one has an experience teacher to coach one, one can recognized what is it in a minute. and only after then one can practice.

It is a wasting of time to practice diligently without first recognized what they are.

This is also a taboo of chinese martial art where one purposely not teaching others but keep asking others to practice diligently and keep them in low skill level.

The other taboo of chinese martial art is keep arguing on false theory and end up in qouting 1000 books but cant recognized what is what even if one place the phenomenon in front of one’s eyes.

3, Shen Ming is not enlightenment. and in fact nothing to do with Enlightenment at all.

4, the general translation of Dong Jin as understanding energy and Shen Ming as enlightenment is actually a totally misleading similar to asking someone to find the hair of the tutle shell or horn of the rabit which are non exist.

Certainly, if one have never know it one will not be able to point clearly on what are those.

any advance player here likes to comment or sharing on the Dong Jin and Shen Ming?[/QUOTE]

1.yes because you dont know about taiji so it seems too difficult on you. i dont need you to understand either.

2.IF Dong Jin and Shen Ming are extremely simple, so there should be a lot of taiji master who had similar skill level like on of the founder Zhan San Feng or Chen Chang Xing.

IF you thoughts Dong Jin can be recognized in a minute, hmm i think your way is absolutely in wrong path man..

When you want to build the building, what do you do first? painting or make some foundation? your words is you only want to reach the advance skill with forgetting the basic one.

It is a wasting of time to only talk and read without diligently practicing the basic.

This is also the way of chinese martial art MASTER where one purposely not teaching students some new skill but keep asking him to practice the basic level until they are well prepared.

There are many student of chinese martial art that only keep arguing on false theory with their simple minded (or have a purpose to wannabe taiji master) and end up in the wrong way, and end up to blame the arts itself or even blame the teachers.

  1. Shen MIng is Enlinghtement after you know the Dong Jin and after you know and familiar with the contact. it’s not enlightenment in buddhism

  2. They are exist if only you know the principle. If you dont …never dream about it

8

1.yes because you dont know about taiji so it seems too difficult on you. i dont need you to understand either.

it got nothing to do with taiji, it got all to do with you cant describe what you dont know.

2.IF Dong Jin and Shen Ming are extremely simple, so there should be a lot of taiji master who had similar skill level like on of the founder Zhan San Feng or Chen Chang Xing.

recognize Dong Jin and Shen Ming doesnt guarentee one to be the top artists. However, those who recognized them enter the door and knows how to cultivate. While those who doesnt recognized never enter the door disregard of how much practice one practice.

IF you thoughts Dong Jin can be recognized in a minute, hmm i think your way is absolutely in wrong path man..

Isnt it an ignorance person making an assumption before even one asks and knows what others’ ability?

When you want to build the building, what do you do first? painting or make some foundation? your words is you only want to reach the advance skill with forgetting the basic one.

What’s wrong with some can go in directly to advance level?

It is a wasting of time to only talk and read without diligently practicing the basic.

No one said one needs not to practice. But practicing without a direction and recognized what is what is a waste of life.

This is also the way of chinese martial art MASTER where one purposely not teaching students some new skill but keep asking him to practice the basic level until they are well prepared.

There lots of chinese martial art MASTER only have the title but knowing nothing themself.

T

here are many student of chinese martial art that only keep arguing on false theory with their simple minded (or have a purpose to wannabe taiji master) and end up in the wrong way, and end up to blame the arts itself or even blame the teachers.

If one can clearly and precisely describe what is One feather cannot be added, Dong Jin, and Shen Ming. Then one doesnt have the attainment. at that point qouting the classical writing is useless.

  1. Shen MIng is Enlinghtement after you know the Dong Jin and after you know and familiar with the contact. it’s not enlightenment in buddhism

you still cant describe it precise and clear.

  1. They are exist if only you know the principle. If you dont …never dream about it.

Who cares about dreaming. Can one do it, and can one do it facing other martial artists such as Wing Chun and MMA.

So what is Jin? What is Dong Jin? what is Shen Ming? Simple stuffs.

9

hendrik,

all of your answer is like chasing the star. or can you tell anyone how to make a candy without a sugar on it? and can you describe what “sweet” is?

the only thing you can is based on experienced. not all of the things can be described. not all. sometimes you must taste it by yourself.

so i know your teacher must be the know nothing one.

Isnt it an ignorance person making an assumption before even one asks and knows what others’ ability?
okay then, do you have ability? if you have it, why dont you try to describe it, can’t you?

10

the only thing you can is based on experienced. not all of the things can be described. not all. sometimes you must taste it by yourself.

those who has it can describe clearly. and those who knows it will know.

so i know your teacher must be the know nothing one.

1, you are being very ignorance to make assumption based on thin air.
2, you are being very disrespectful to my teachers to the point of no moduk.

even in Kong Sau one could beat others but one never humiliate others sifu. that is the rule. are you are Chinese martial artist? have you learn how to behave properly?

okay then, do you have ability? if you have it, why dont you try to describe it, can’t you?

Pick a advance player or high hand who is know publicly has ability in Dong Jin, Shen Ming..ect then S/he and me can exchange here in this public forum.

11

hehe.. if you read my quote in others thread i said your teacher is Sifu “Google and sifu youtube”. Not your truly teacher, coz i dont even said a single name .

I am still waiting for those explanation form you about dong jin..etc..

12

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003583]Those who have the kung fu will know.[/quote]

You have done nothing to demonstrate you know anything Hendrik. If you have kung fu then please demonstrate it once and for all.

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003583]Dong Jin is not understanding energy. in fact it is mislead to refer Dong Jin is understanding energy

Shen Ming is not enlightenment. in fact is it misleading to refer Shen Ming as enlightenment.[/QUOTE]

Since you THINK you have kung fu, how about instead of just saying the definitions are incorrect defining them yourself!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003588]if you disagree with me, share your view. instead of go off topic.[/QUOTE]

First: All you do is disagree with others without demonstrating you know anything about what you are talking about!

Second: It isnt your thread. You have no place telling anyone to stay on topic!

Third: Just because you have mentioned terms from the introductory comment in your posts does not mean YOU are on topic. All you have said is charlysw is wrong. You have not offered any information that explains why, or your own interpretation.

Saying, Those who have the kung fu will know does not say anything at all. You have not defined how anyone knows they have kung fu, how to develop kung fu, or demonstrated you have it yourself.

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003617]1, your proposal is too complicated and pointing towards confusion.[/quote]

This is no different than your proposal. You have not made any sense of Dong Jin or Shen Ming!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003617]2, Dong Jin and Shen Ming are extremely simple because they are a nature phenomenon. If one has an experience teacher to coach one, one can recognized what is it in a minute. and only after then one can practice.[/quote]

If they are simple please demonstrate your knowledge and kung fu by defining them for us!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003617]It is a wasting of time to practice diligently without first recognized what they are.[/quote]

Please explain your understanding of dong Jin and Shen Ming and let us be the judge of whether one can develop it without recognizing it first!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003617]This is also a taboo of chinese martial art where one purposely not teaching others but keep asking others to practice diligently and keep them in low skill level.[/quote]

As far as we know you are still at a low level yourself.

When one practices a skill they learn about it from the inside out if they practice with insight and pay attention with their mind!

It is possible to learn things without a Master. I know what an orange tastes like because I have tasted one, NOT because some Master told me what it tastes like!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003617]The other taboo of chinese martial art is keep arguing on false theory and end up in qouting 1000 books but cant recognized what is what even if one place the phenomenon in front of one’s eyes.[/quote]

Follow your own advice! This is your only argument when you cannot answer someone elses point, yet you post quotes and videos all the time to make your points!

How can you face yourself in the mirror and ignore your own hypocrisy?

Is this the way you demonstrate you knowledge of kung fu? Being two faced? How is this to inspire anyone to follow your example?

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003617]3, Shen Ming is not enlightenment. and in fact nothing to do with Enlightenment at all.[/quote]

Then what is IT? Empty criticism does no one a benefit!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003617]4, the general translation of Dong Jin as understanding energy and Shen Ming as enlightenment is actually a totally misleading similar to asking someone to find the hair of the tutle shell or horn of the rabit which are non exist.[/quote]

How hard is it for you to show us your kung fu and setting us on the correct path of understanding?

Are you so superior in your own mind you cannot descend to us mere mortals and INSTEAD of criticizing, INFORM us?

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003617]Certainly, if one have never know it one will not be able to point clearly on what are those.[/quote]

Yet you have not pointed clearly yourself!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003617]any advance player here likes to comment or sharing on the Dong Jin and Shen Ming?[/QUOTE]

You first and then we will condescend to you!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003620]it got nothing to do with taiji, it got all to do with you cant describe what you dont know.[/quote]

Then please show us your understanding by describing it for us!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003620]recognize Dong Jin and Shen Ming doesnt guarentee one to be the top artists. However, those who recognized them enter the door and knows how to cultivate. While those who doesnt recognized never enter the door disregard of how much practice one practice.[/quote]

I do not need to understand how I walk in order to walk! I do not need to understand how I eat in order to eat!

Since you have not defined Dong Jin or Shen Ming how are we to trust your judgment in this matter? If you think your vague allusions and foolish criticisms pass as understanding you are ignorant!

FIRST demonstrate that you have an understanding of Dong Jin and Shen Ming, THEN perhaps your comments will help others. Until then all you are doing is stroking your ego!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003620]Isnt it an ignorance person making an assumption before even one asks and knows what others’ ability?[/quote]

Your hypocrisy is glaring at us again! This is all you do is make assumptions about the ability of others and you demonstrate nothing!

To date all you have done is post one horrible video of you performing standing which was roundly criticized by others and demonstrated nothing but an old man slouching and pretending it is some kind of kung fu practice!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003620]If one can clearly and precisely describe what is One feather cannot be added, Dong Jin, and Shen Ming. Then one doesnt have the attainment. at that point qouting the classical writing is useless.[/quote]

And yet you have done none of this yourself!

You quote classical writings all the time and have not demonstrated that you understand them yourself.

The classical writings are unnecessarily cryptic. Most of them are a waste of time to read because simple principles are unnecessarily complicated. This wastes the students time.

I don’t care why they were originally made cryptic. It is ignorance and foolishness!

Oh and…

…follow your own advice before you dish it out to others!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003620]you still cant describe it precise and clear.[/quote]

So far.neither can you!

You are a jerk Hendrik! Have you not been paying attention? Charlyws has repeatedly stated he is a beginner and wants to share ideas in order to help himself and others, yet all you have done is condescend to him!

Is THIS what you have learned from your sifu? If the student is a reflection of the master, as you have stated in former posts, then your sifu is a jerk too!

If you had kung fu, if you had understanding of Tao and Chan you would be more kind to him and help him in his errors rather than constantly condescend to him. He is open, you are closed! He is fresh and new, you are old and rotten. He is flexible and willing to learn, you are old and decrepit and ossified in your rainbow fantasy dream!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003620]Who cares about dreaming. Can one do it, and can one do it facing other martial artists such as Wing Chun and MMA.[/quote]

All you do Hendrik is live in your dream fantasy! Can you DO IT? If so show it to us! Show us your kung fu!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003620]So what is Jin? What is Dong Jin? what is Shen Ming? Simple stuffs.[/QUOTE]

If it is so simple then please explain it to us all so that we may treat you with like respect and condescending to YOU.

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003623]those who has it can describe clearly. and those who knows it will know.[/quote]

Go ahead we are waiting!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003620]1, you are being very ignorance to make assumption based on thin air.[/quote]

HYPOCRISY!!!

All you do is make assumptions about other people based on thin air! Grow up and act like an adult and stop embarrassing your sifu!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003620]2, you are being very disrespectful to my teachers to the point of no moduk.[/quote]

HYPOCRISY!!!

You have insulted the sifus of others yourself on this board! You have stated one can know the sifu by the behavior of the student. If you can make that leap then others may also do it.

We can DRAW CONCLUSIONS about your sifu based upon your behavior and lack of knowledge!

Your sifu was a jerk and led you into the bondage of your own ego! He was inadequate in his wisdom, kung fu, compassion, and knowledge

Your sifu failed YOU! You have not learned much other than how to dream about your own superiority. This is demonstrated by your constant condescension to others and inability to demonstrate anything for yourself!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003620]even in Kong Sau one could beat others but one never humiliate others sifu. that is the rule. are you are Chinese martial artist? have you learn how to behave properly?[/quote]

HYPOCRISY!!!

All you do is is humiliate others with your condescension! If you want others to behave with decorum, set an example and START WITH YOURSELF!!!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1003620]Pick a advance player or high hand who is know publicly has ability in Dong Jin, Shen Ming..ect then S/he and me can exchange here in this public forum.[/QUOTE]

Yes the GREAT HENDRIK cannot find anyone who knows as much as he does! Words are meaningless if you cannot do it! Go enter a MMA contest and demonstrate to all of us your advanced skills. THEN come here and enlighten us all with your wisdomthat is AFTER your 6 month recovery in the hospital!

13

in the real world 1000 pounds crush 4 taels

“shaolin is brave, we internal boxing are defensive”
epitaph to wang zhennan

“the hard: attacking and advancing. the soft: blocking and defending”
ji xiao xing shu chapter 14: boxing (1558)

soft is ming dynasty martial arts codeword for blocking and dodging. stop living in fantasy

14

[QUOTE=bawang;1003639]in the real world 1000 pounds crush 4 taels[/QUOTE]

Hey MAAAAAAANN!!! You’re messin’ with my mind!!!:eek:

15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWSpTNX5i2A&playnext_from=TL&videos=nSMFQYlKUJA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-fKmH_MYlU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyvJ6cwTlbU&playnext_from=TL&videos=wgp_Ogls7kM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqX8xIcQa1c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc8p0AdvLRA&feature=related

16

[QUOTE=dcrjradmonish;1003642]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWSpTNX5i2A&playnext_from=TL&videos=nSMFQYlKUJA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-fKmH_MYlU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyvJ6cwTlbU&playnext_from=TL&videos=wgp_Ogls7kM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqX8xIcQa1c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc8p0AdvLRA&feature=related[/QUOTE]

Very nice!:slight_smile:

Those vids were very informative. I was especially struck by how he never criticized, belittled or condescended to his viewers.

He must have had a very good sifu teach him!

17

[QUOTE=dcrjradmonish;1003642]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWSpTNX5i2A&playnext_from=TL&videos=nSMFQYlKUJA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-fKmH_MYlU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyvJ6cwTlbU&playnext_from=TL&videos=wgp_Ogls7kM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqX8xIcQa1c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc8p0AdvLRA&feature=related[/QUOTE]

thx bro for the video..

18

quan lun or theory of boxing methods.

theory does not exist in vacumn.

theory derived from practice

more practice contributed to more theory.

there are 2 way streets.

–

yes a lot of “subtleties” in MA can only be shown and learned (dong)

no words may describe adequately

so are many other things in life.

–

shen ming may be translated as proficiency

once you learn and understand from direct hand to hand teaching from a good teacher

practice what you dong and attain shen ming.

–

books reading and video watching are not enough ( as pointed out)

–

means/ways of softness/gentleness compliment or ways of hardness.

they help each other

or kang ruo xiang ji.

–

tai chi is the dynamic between yin and yang and softness and hardness

or balance between both.

–

learn to know about jin or dong jin

  1. your own

  2. from the opponent

  3. interaction from you and the opponent

  4. there are many types of jin depending on qualities

apparent or ming jin

hidden or an jin

peng lu ji an cai lie zhou kao ( ba da jin bie 8 categories)

so the question would be:

which jin do you dong and shen ming?

which jin you learn to know and be proficient in?

–

19

[QUOTE=bawang;1003639]in the real world 1000 pounds crush 4 taels

“shaolin is brave, we internal boxing are defensive”
epitaph to wang zhennan

“the hard: attacking and advancing. the soft: blocking and defending”
ji xiao xing shu chapter 14: boxing (1558)

soft is ming dynasty martial arts codeword for blocking and dodging. stop living in fantasy[/QUOTE]

they are very very rare when 1000 pounds crush by 4 taels. but it actually really exist.

so, before i met someone and felt it by myself. i almost agree powers crush the weak. :slight_smile:

20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQBKpV9emKc

do not forget take time to practice

I watched my cousins doing mashed potato dances and singing (growing up in the 60s).

when I came to the states

they told me do not forget “kung fu/tai chi time”.

understanding is one thing.

being proficient needs a lot of practice.

only practice the right way every time will get you there.

:slight_smile: