[QUOTE=Vajramusti;872795]Some opinions- no debate-thanks:
If you are using wing chun:
Concepts and techniques are not mutually exclusive. Thus the concept of a tan sao(or fok or bong)-structure, shape, motion, distance, position , proper energy is developed via good slt (including structure)and repetition— but the applications and adaptations are many and numerous. And, depending on context, its use for defense, offence can change. Different two person interactions-chi sao, lut sao, lop sao,gor sao, man sao can show the posssibilities…against different kinds of forces…not just wc motions.
But I submit that in real situations “seeing” a hook etc can be problematic. Better -if he moves first get there first- a decent concept and application -if practiced properly.Full identification can come too late.
Kicks are ok for practice but often risky in reality- you can land on your rump or head!
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
not picking on you , just that you made a good point [bold] This can be due to not having a developing idea from start to end…but rather a disjointed approach from forms to chi-sao to free fighting…
We are developing to deliver the idea with the techniques that allow this to happen, with a concept driven goal. all out actions are trained to able to both attack and defend together…BUT if the root ideas arent known and 2nd line response of 2 of our hands are required for every attack we deal with , then we are never reaching the sharpest edge we can be [sounds like a gillette commercial 
]…to really sharp we have to have the knowledge of the basic reasons for dan chi-sao..chi-sao…they arent to develop a sticky feeling idea, that is a by product .The reasons we do this are to develop the strikes we use in taking the concept to reality…every action , be it a single leading striking arm, can and will be able to do 2 actions . This can be achieved by acute arm angles relative to the angles of the force they receive . We acustom ourselves to each others lines of strike force doing drills with each other to simple develop our basic strikes. To a 3rd party it would seem that we deliver a chain of punches that are just striking fist to target. Unfortunately many ‘teachers’ also do this :o
The reality is that the strikes are being delivered along a specific lines with a tactical idea guided by a concept…intent to attack is critical, aggressive entry to strike along lines trained to change and angle /flow in real time with a resisting opponent. The key elements are that we strike with lead and rear hands in constant rotation, while maintaining the sides in motion , also allowing the opponent to X over the imaginary centerline so we dont fight their attempts to make contact with our arms , by simple arm exchange we can take what they chased and replace it with a following strike from the rear hand…or trap to prevent them facing…all the secondary techniques ..pak, jut, bong, are for IF we need them .
The chi sao can be a simple way to develop each others opposites…close enough to develop striking , random enough to ingrain , not set techniques & responses , but fluid instinctive tactical maneuvering to ‘incoming’ What we give back is our repetoire , all striking attacks with recovery actions to maintain our goals.
When ambiguity enters the chi-sao , the distinct process of developing the 'tools ’ is lost to ‘chi-sao warriors’ who ‘think’ they can do anything in contact turning this way and that to play hand games…you can do anything , but do you know the root idea.
The simple striking attacks of VT are very hard to stop if you dont ‘mirror’ them with equally angles attacking responses that are also attacking the attack in the same beat…
We can adopt longe ranges to utilize weapons extra length , attacking limbs quicker than body /head. but the tactical ideas stay the same isolate and decapitate…er I mean dominate heheheh
Tan sao isnt meant to be a tan shape block moving laterally offline , its a partner to jum sao. Each is the required strike to attack flanks with in rotataion.. if the arms arent bridges we have simple lines we hold to strike under the arms too…
The actions in the system are to allow striking…tan elbow leaves the line , say left tan strike elbow leaves left but fist goes to guys head, chi-sao trains to keep the natural hinge action of meetig force reduced so we can stalemate if we make contact..the natural forces of one strike push the left arm of the opponent sidways or down as the striking tan fist goes in, the now dominant arm can drop as jut sao , if required, to clear jum sao, jum sao acts to do force to close the line in the direction the preceding tan took the arm…or vice versa… the jum is trained in chi-sao levels to simply push the brideged opponents arm away from your line the tan just attacked.
The primary clearing actions are jut sao because its inherent in the dropping and recycling of our striking attacks…not lop sao [ grabbing holding on stopping striking ] .
The dan chi- can be done so the wrist is used , we dont do this because its redundant to fight a punch with a downward wrist flick …we use each other to align and fint positions to ingrain muscle memroy for further attacking levels…chi-sao introduces both sides randomly, seung ma toi ma, attacking entry and countering…a disting process.
this can be and does go to delivering the concept as attack to defend…tactics are all you need rather than set piece tan for this gaun for that…we use gates but only to isolate training ideas that become instinctive …using two free fast moving hands striking while also deflecting or trapping by design of not thinking as they do so…
no thinking attack…
