this sounds liek a dumb question, but i figure I shoudl ask it anyway.
So i’m itnerested in learning taiji, however i’m quite put off by the high kicks and the jumping moements in some styles of taiji. i was wondering if you know of any style that does not have either of these?
just another question, i’m sure you’ve all heard people ask this a million times, but i’ll ask this one anywya. What do you look for in a taiji instructor? In external martial arts, its a little easier since most of the movements are external, but for the internal arts how do you see how good an instructor is??
Yes, just do any of the westernised versions of the Yang short form bereft of any martial application. Most Taiji performed today in the west is without any combat aspect.
Most of the things I would look for in an instructor are the same things I would look for in forms, which is the antithesis of everything you would want in a teacher as far as I can tell, judging by what you seek in a form.
Many of the styles got high kicks, not all of them are designed to be used but are more training purpose.
“Train high, kick low.”
Jumps are good, you might need them in a real life confrontation, anything that is in your arsenal might come in handy one day.
Most of the taiji kicks and jumps don’t need much flexibility or special ability, you normally build up slowly to them.
What to look for in an Instructor?
Tough one.
What is you aim to get from Taiji practice, look for an Intructor that can fulfill that goal for you.
If you want a traditional teacher that teaches you the martial applications look for one that challenges you and forces you to do things you don’t like like high kicks and jumps.
Unfortunately there are few teachers that are good at teaching the martial side.
I was hoping there was maybe a style I coudl find without jumps or kicks simply because those high kicks and jumps aren’t very practical. I guess I’ll have to decide between the major styles then. Do any of you guys practice Chen Taiji?
Those kicks and leaps were put there by men of genius, if you can’t see the application then it’s surely your loss… I don’t think Yang Lu Chan was an impracticle man.
from what you write, obviously you are very knowledagble in the taiji form. i’m not. but thats okay because i haven’ t started learning yet, but i plan to.
but perhaps you could enlighten me on the high kicks in taiji and their application. I understand that unlike the shaolin arts, taiji trains for stability over agile footwork (like choy lay fut). But by bringing the the leg up so high, don’t you lose stabliity and your lower body is vulnerable?
Sorry if I seemed offhand but I felt there was more to be said regarding the kicks and their applications.
Ok, essentially there are no kicks above the waist in Taijiquan. What you see in some of the forms are infact extentions of the kicks in order to train firm rootedness and to ensure that we are opening up the joints which is part of the entire raison d’etre of Taijiquan.
For example when you perform a heel kick in Taijiquan, during the slow form this generally looks high but this is essentially jiben gong (training) rather than the direct application. The application of a heel kick is always to the groin or the waist area.
Your question regarding stability is apt and brings us to the most important aspect of this technique which is largely about sinking, rooting and remaing sung. When we have correctly learned to do these above three things then our stability should not be unduly effected. If there is no stability then there is something flawed in our training or our understanding of the technique.
You would only use a heel kick if the situation was auspicious and for no other reason. So the heel kick is not just a kick but rather it is blocking an attack and countering thus and doing several things at once.
Attacker kicks you with right leg and strikes with left fist. Application of Left Heel kick;
As we bring our left knee upward we deflect attackers right kick out to our left having not yet extended the leg out. Our torso is turning left (not our waist) and deflecting the left punch with our left back palm as it comes up to fan out into the left heel kick posture.
At this point we use the opponents energy and lead him into a disadvantageous position by coiling our left hand over his fist, grasping it in any number of chin na techniques. Simultaneously we are pulling the attacker towards us, off balance as we extend our left heel kick directly outwards using a coiling centrifugal fajin directly into the attackers groin or stomach.
So we are essentially in this one movement doing several things which may look impractical in the form but in reality are very useful. We are able to borrow our attackers energy and make more firm our root (should we need to) by securing the opponents hand as we pull them onto the outward bound heel kick to the vital areas. It’s a pretty vicious manouvre which needs to be see in real time to understand the principles involved. It is actually very practical and in close quarters, very handy and economical too.
So we are blocking and deflecting a right kick and left punch and countering in this application. There are variations of this technique such is the nature of our art. I would actually be put off by anybody not teaching leaping kicks and the full long form curriculum, but thats me.
thanks for the response. put in that context it makes sense. i’m accustomed to southern kung fu styles where you generally see low kicks.
oh one more question about the jumping moves in the form. You mentioned that the high kciks train for stability and a firm root. but when both feet leave the ground, aren’t you once again in a vulnerable position? you aren’t rooted to teh ground anymore and since your’e nto rooted, you’re not very stable. Im guessing this also must be a training device.
Jumping may have to do with applications where the opponent attacks your lower body or legs . I think you would immediatly want to put your structure down on him after you jump up. If your main rooted leg is attacked you can also switch step by stomping down with your other leg maybe. There is a kick where you jump up and then kick downwards into the opponent ; almost like a pi qaun type motion in xingyi, and the move involves lifting the opponent upwards with a spiral and then kicking, and then putting the structure immediately down again . There are also “tornado” sweeps and kicks which can be done low or high. I can only guess that maybe the jumping kicks uses power from both legs woking adding to the power or maybe more spinning power. Jumping moves in the form make it more difficult for cardiorespertory fitness too.
You mentioned that the high kciks train for stability and a firm root. but when both feet leave the ground, aren’t you once again in a vulnerable position?
You have to remember that this is usually in response to a sweep where the opponent would be beneath your waist level and close to the ground, or you may be jumping due to a weapon sweeping at the legs. The period of time that you are in the air is so fast that the loss of root is moot and negligable.
The other thing to remember is that lotus kicks are usually performed after you have gathered the opponents head, wrapping your right arm say around the back of their heads, pulling it down towards you as you then perform your right arcing lotus kick straight into their head or chest at your own waist height.
you aren’t rooted to teh ground anymore and since your’e nto rooted, you’re not very stable. Im guessing this also must be a training device.
No it’s actually an application and while there are few leaping kicks they have their purpose and are completely practical in use. I’d suggest finding a very good Taiji teacher who knows their applications and asking them about the kicks and applications; how they work and their role in fighting strategy. It’s often very difficult to explain in writing but all becomes clear the minute somebody shows you in real life.
Wahh seems like you have a firm grasp of practicality based on your questions. Don’t let these jokers on here fool ya, “internal” arts should be practical too.
i hope i can find a good master as you guys have. you guys seem to know yoru stuff pretty good. and unfortunately its hard to tell how good an instructor is…especialyl when you are just starting.
still i have one question abtou the jumping still. yeah i know its better to get an instructor.. but for the next few weeks, … i won’t be going anywhere…
for the situations that the jumps would be used, for me it seems more practical that you owuld step towards him. for example if someone tries to leg sweep you, couldn’t you step towards him, and his sweep woudl be ineffective and at teh sametime you would not sacrafice yoru root and he would be in a very bad position? i dunno, maybe theres some technique or moevment i dont know and its a very bad idea to step in towards him… but enlighten me please.
yeah sorry about asking all these questions, your patience is proably running thin bynow.
Wahh seems like you have a firm grasp of practicality based on your questions. Don’t let these jokers on here fool ya, “internal” arts should be practical too.
syd maybe when I have time I’ll post how absurd some of the stuff you’ve posted so far on here if you like and then we’ll truly see who the ultimate keyboard warrior is among us
Go ahead sister, your playing to a empty theatre… L Oh… and two posts, that really must have got you riled. Bring it on, I need something to break the insomnia…yawnnnnn.
