Tai Chi wins in MMA

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
61

Fight report from Neil Rosak

"Well - wasn’t quite how I saw it, or many others who were there.
Abdul mohammed is the Cage Warriors champion and so they like to
hype him up a bit and don’t like it when he loses on another show I
guess.

It was a foregone conclusion that he would get the take down (he is
ridiculously strong and a champion wrestler) - and he did, twice.
First time sami very easily regained guard and then very easily
stood up again.Then put some good knee strikes in.

Next time he got it Sami again took guard very easily after getting
caught near the fence.
The cuts were caused by about seven or so unanswered elbow shots
from Sami in the bottom position to his temple and face - which he
did not like at all. The guy may cut easily but then they were very
good elbows.

A Champion Olympic wrestler who is wider than he is tall will
inevitably get a takedown - but he inflicted no damage at all and
lost the dominant position easily, and was hit a lot in the face in
the process by elbows. Sami would rather knock him out but everyone
was very happy with his performance considering the last time he was
on the ground was his last cage fight some months back. He does no
groundfighting at all to prepare for these events.
Abdul was very smart not to stand with Sami. He used his awesome
wresling skills to pull off some wild takedowns, but he did not
dominate the fight and made lots of mistakes.
I am pretty sure that Sami would have caught him with something else
if the cut didn’t open. The cagewarriors report is definately off
key.

Sami took a fight agaisnt possibly the top welterweight in the UK at
very short notice and did very well - tough times are what cage
fighting is about, especially if you fight the top guys like Abdul.A
fight agaisnt him is never going to go all your way - though Sami
sustained far less punishment in this bout than he has in any other
cage fight.
Sami could prepare better for fights sometimes but he was excellent
this time against an incredibly powerful opponent who has
thouroughly dominated other opponents. "

62

Paul, I don’t get it either.

I would certainly like to be shown what it is though.

Maybe one day on holiday to Canada…
:slight_smile:

Still the impression I get is that it’s not just footwork, but directional forces that neutralise other directional forces?:confused:

Actually isn’t that kind of a given? Or not?

Dunno, it’s the end of a long day… GAAAAH!

63

Well my family are all in Calgary so I could pretend Im going to visit them :slight_smile:

It may be like many things in MA, in that it develops without you realising it (through correct repetition of forms) - once it’s pointed out then you can deliberately cultivate it. The problem with that route is that something can become corrupted through ignorance.

delibandit - how long have you trained? your profile says 2 months. If that’s the case then you cant possibly have any practical ability to exhibit what you’re talking about. Nor are you qualified to make sweeping statements about what other people have experienced.

64

Holy (rap I didn’t realise that.

And I still maintain it doesn’t take 10, or even 5 years to become proficient through tai chi.

65

I hope you’d accept that developing Peng to a reasonable degree takes more than a couple of months though right? I think that until the body is properly sung, one cannot develop peng, and without peng one cannot know what taiji is.

edit - and it’s also about layers. I agree that someone should be effective with any martial art after 6 months (to the level they could hit someone hard enough to drop them, basically defend themselves). I think that taiji starts out completely external, and then trains to become internal over time (a bit of a truism - sorry :)) I think that what someone is doing after 6 months of taiji training isn’t mechanically anything like taiji.

Getting back to Bruce now - he seems to say that this is where 5 steps comes in. Mechanically one can be doing everything correctly in a taiji context, but without the correct platform for it, it isnt taiji.

I’m glad I cleared that up so well. Im confused now

66

Well I’m not saying you’re going to be proficient in a couple of months.

What I’m saying is that just doing the training regularly, whilst not turning you into a proficient fighter overnight, is going to increase your ability to look after yourself incrementally, so it’s not like you can’t fight with it, and then all of a sudden, after 10 years, you can.

It’s a process and the process starts taking effect well before that. You may not be the human embodiement of tai chi principles in motion but you can fight better than you could before because of your training.

“I think that until the body is properly sung, one cannot develop peng, and without peng one cannot know what taiji is.”

Mate you’re way ahead of me here. You’ve obviously reached a stage in your training I haven’t, where you’ve got a practical understanding of those terms. I’m still very much understanding those terms in theory.

67

see my edit above :slight_smile:

68

Seen it - seen mine?

But I agree with you btw.

Fu*king hell - I’m going home…

69

Originally posted by delibandit
Sevenstar: Yes, other arts use borrowing and yielding, but the forces are more separated in these cases. Sort of yield then attack. Yin the Yang or Yang then Yin. In Taiji the yield and attack force (yin and yang) are integrated. The Taiji symbol is just that a symbol of Taiji, not yin and yang. The symbol represents an integration, a balance between the two. Many people get confused by this. Taijiquan is about the concept of Taiji, not yin and yang. It’s like a ball that is resting in the water and you push your force against it. What happens? Your force is transfered by the ball.

Actually, the borrowing application I was talking about is integrated.

other internal people - shooter for example, sees peng in judo guys. If you ask a judo guy what peng is, however, he will have no clue what you are talking about.

70

I need to update my profile, I’ve been training for more than 2 months. Look, I can’t make you believe in Taiji no matter what I say. And honestly, I don’t care. I learn from a great teacher. I also study Tongbei through that same teacher and organization. I enjoy it, it is facinating, and good for my physical well-being. I don’t give a sht about beating any top champion ring fighters. They are not likely the kind of guys that are going to give me trouble anyway. With Tongbei, I could probably take on 90% of the a**holes who would be a problem to me anyway. And most of them, along with the other 10%, I can probably avoid a confrontation with anyhow. I’m not a troublemaker and I’m not really interested bar and street fighting per say, it is disgraceful and something to be avoided. Personally, I hope I never have to fight anyone. If you are getting into a lot of fights, it is probably because YOU have a problem. Most of the people on this board only understand power, speed, and strength. Taijiquan is real, it is not some Chinese bullsht fraud. I’m not saying Taiji is invincible, but at very skilled levels, it is amazing. I’ve been lucky enough to have been exposed to something special.

And…I don’t want to study BBJ or Muay Tai. I want to study traditional Chinese martial arts. To me they are more interesting.

71

Originally posted by Kaitain(UK)
I hope you’d accept that developing Peng to a reasonable degree takes more than a couple of months though right? I think that until the body is properly sung, one cannot develop peng, and without peng one cannot know what taiji is.

see my above comment - how would your statement apply to the judo example?

72

Originally posted by delibandit
I need to update my profile, I’ve been training for more than 2 months. Look, I can’t make you believe in Taiji no matter what I say. And honestly, I don’t care. I learn from a great teacher. I also study Tongbei through that same teacher and organization. I enjoy it, it is facinating, and good for my physical well-being. I don’t give a sh*t about beating any top champion ring fighters. They are not likely the kind of guys that are going to give me trouble anyway. With Tongbei, I could probably take on 90% of the a**holes who would be a problem to me anyway. And most of them, along with the other 10%, I can probably avoid a confrontation with anyhow. I’m not a troublemaker and I’m not really interested bar and street fighting per say, it is disgraceful and something to be avoided. Personally, I hope I never have to fight anyone.

Nothing wrong with that. IMO though, you should at some point in time, test yourself somehow…that’s where stepping onto the ring comes in. It doesn’t have to be bjj, muay thai, etc - have a san shou match.

73

SevenStar you **** fighter;)

74

Originally posted by delibandit
[B]I need to update my profile, I’ve been training for more than 2 months. Look, I can’t make you believe in Taiji no matter what I say. And honestly, I don’t care. . . . . I’ve been lucky enough to have been exposed to something special.

[/B]

thats nice that you enjoy what youre studying, and yes tai chi is great stuff imo, but i think what provokes people to respond argumentatively to your posts is not that they nessesarily hate or doubt tai chi, but that getting lectured on some of the big-picture aspects of fighting arts from somebody who has limited perspective and experience can be frustrating. with around a year & a half experience with one sifu, no matter how great he is, youre still a babe in the woods when it comes to where your tai chi fits into the grand scheme of things, especially if you havent been exposed to many other arts or competitions outside of your class (a few other guys in-house w/ prior experience don’t really count for much in that context), and this is obvious from the arguements you make. you don’t have to convince everyone that tai chi is the best, just enjoy it and try to keep an open mind. because nobody is going to line up to listen to some newbie philosopher-king anyway… maybe you should spend more time really listening to some of them.

75

Originally posted by Becca
[SIZE=1]late addition…[/SIZE]
Five steps is in reference to the five levels of mental preperation. . . .are as follows:

strong mind > concentration > controll > discipline > self dicipline
. [/B]

lol

buzz . . . wrong answer. Guess again?

76

Nevermind…

What’s funny is I never bothered with a web search before since I had already discussed the 5 steps with my teacher. I say “funny” because I’ve watched Shooter bring up “the 5 stpes” ..*ooooohhhh…:eek: * time and again and each time people get annoyed or tease him or make up wierd theories about what they are and a simple google search for “taiji 5 steps” turned up good explanations immediately…several of them.

Google is your friend.

Now how they apply to combat and how you train and implement them is another story.:wink:

77

I just got annoyed at Shooter being such a prom queen about it.

Frankly, I could give less of a **** about what they are, since it’s likely that the tai chiers I meet are more of the pajama- and sandal-wearing muesli-eating yoghurt-knitting crystal-licking lesbian variety than those who could fight their way out of a paper bag.

It just ****es me off when people (esp good people like Shooter) come on a discussion board and don’t discuss what they pretend to discuss. Capiche?

78

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
lol! Actually, I boxed for my college’s team. Although I came a few years later, it’s the only national championship my school had ever won. I won a far cry more than 25% of my matches (all amateur under the USABA and NCBA) and I wouldn’t consider myself anything special at all.

Neither would anyone else! BAWAHAHAHAHA! Sorry, couldn’t resist. I’m out. :smiley:

79

The first rule of 5 Steps is that you do not talk about the 5 Steps.

The second rule of 5 Steps is that YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE 5 STEPS!

80

Seven - I agree entirely that Peng is present within Judo and BJJ guys (good ones anyway). It isn’t cultivated deliberately however, and therefore it’s hit and miss how good they may be with it.

I didn’t say Peng=Taiji. But since every other force in taiji is basically peng used in different directions, if someone can’t exhibit Peng then they don’t really understand it and therefore aren’t at a stage where they can talk competently about doing taiji.

I wasn’t trying to say taiji is unique because it has Peng Jin in it :slight_smile: Taiji is unique because I can fire chi bolts from my ass with it.

Delibandit:

Most of the people on this board only understand power, speed, and strength

Firstly, in their systems they are valid attributes that work well for them in their system. I think you’re being a little rude to think this is all ‘most’ people here understand.

Secondly, people are only interested in what you can do with your taiji. All of us can spout off about what our teachers are capable of, but that doesnt really help in terms of sharing information. It’s a good way of regulating ourselves as well.

Thirdly - taiji is about extreme polarity of yin and yang. I get where you’re coming from with yin and yang integrated, but that is something that all competent MA’s will do.

Fourthly - the ball in water analogy. Think on this as well - the ball is effectively storing the energy you push into it, so when you release it, that force is released. The ball will also try and circle around your linear force to get back to the surface. However hard you push the ball, it’ll always do the same thing. That’s just Peng.

Lastly - when I started training and first came here I was a complete taiji fanboy as well, so I speak from experience. Some friendly advice: don’t evangelise here. Those of us who train taiji are already in love with it, those that dont train taiji already probably have good reasons why they aren’t. Invest in loss :slight_smile: