[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1167578]
I have never once seen ANY OF YOU post anything visual that is based on how we use our Wing Chun blades, so in a sense that old saying “Wing Chun blades are never seen” really runs true!! The more you go into this discussion the messier it will get and in the end everyone will turn to the filipino daggers to supplement what they don’t know about our own weapon. Sad really, but this has happend across Europe already.
Spencer- Ip man taught very few people the bot jam do- on purpose.The bjd training in Ip Man wing chun requires competence in stancing, moving, foot work, hand control, timing, distance control etc.
Many wing chun bjd showing off is just made up.
In my experience competent Gurkha kukhri work is another great usage of knives.
Facing someone with a knife is serious stuff. Shawn Tei’s student’s demo in his demo /vd is incompetent and can get her killed.
Of course as several have pointed in facing a knife you can expect some damage yourself.
This topic is silly stuff for a thread. Best to get competent direct instruction
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1167578]You might be surprised but I’m kinda behind Hendrik on this one. Not that I am Buddhist, but I do understand the nature of discussion and as far as I can see on this thread the discussion has not even entered the realms of what we can do ourselves with our own blades, and we are already attempting to try to defend other more ‘rage-like’ attacks with ‘daggers’ and ‘machetes’. 
I have never once seen ANY OF YOU post anything visual that is based on how we use our Wing Chun blades, so in a sense that old saying “Wing Chun blades are never seen” really runs true!! The more you go into this discussion the messier it will get and in the end everyone will turn to the filipino daggers to supplement what they don’t know about our own weapon. Sad really, but this has happend across Europe already.
There is a remoresless attitude that must be present when you train the knives, and this is where I feel Hendriks concern as he is a practising Buddhist. This remorseless behaviour did not originate in Shaolin, nor the Red Boats or the streets of Hong Kong!! It originated in Warfare, so I would be more interetsed to hear from people that have such experience, like Phil. How to ‘switch on and off’ is a military thing and not something for the hobby martial artist having fun in the class. Seems right then that the knives are closely guarded and never shown to outsiders.
In my day ‘knife defense’ meant that you learnt very specific sets that ‘defended your own blades!’ because there is nothing worse than having your knife taken away in the blink of an eye. Empty hand defense against a knife is non-existent in my learning. We called it method no.36… RUN!!![/QUOTE]if we have 'em, which we do, in the bad old days some one likely used 'em. Maybe on of those,'that’s not a knife (whip) THESE are knives! Look I definitely appreciate the divine nature of non violence but some of us are involved directly in the preservation of life ,even to the forfeit of our own. I,m starting to realise why I don’t see 'chuners in real self defence situations, saving any one or in the octagon. We just don’t get involved,eh?Practice,practice, practice, cluck our tongues and frown at the barbarians.
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1167552]You are all missing the boat. You can not always expect to be attacked by someone with a knife or you would likely arm yourself. Practicing to defend against a knife is really a good idea. Chances are you are going to get cut or stabbed, so what do you do? Do you stand there and take it like a man? Or do you try to defend yourself? If you decide to defend yourself, what do you do then? What if you can’t run? What if he is faster than you and can outrun you? What if you are cornered? You have to make some sort of effort or you are certainly going to get it in the neck. So you get cut or stabbed in the process? At least you didn’t stand there and let him do it.
My recommendation. Learn several techniques that could possibly work for you and practice or train it. It might not save you, and you might not ever need it, but there is always that possibility and you would not want to be without at least some measure of defense.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think anyone missed the point. Everything you wrote is a given. But if you are learning unarmed knife defense, learn effective unarmed knife defense. What was shown in the original video is more likely than not will get you killed much more quickly than an effective knife defense.
An effective knife defense may get you killed too. You just might have stand a better chance than doing what was shown in the Shawn’s video.
The difference maybe an increase in your favor from 1% to say 9%.
Here’s my critique of the defense.
#1 Too many moves by the defender.
#2 The attacker attacked in an wholly unrealistic manner.
[QUOTE=Happy Tiger;1167581]We just don’t get involved,eh?Practice,practice, practice, cluck our tongues and frown at the barbarians.[/QUOTE]
Personally, I couldn’t frown at the barbarians because I am one!! It’s all in my name given to me by my Sifu 
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1167581]Spencer- Ip man taught very few people the bot jam do- on purpose.[/QUOTE]
As has my Sifu, and his before him Joy. I too have never taught anyone yet. Now I have shared with some of the more experienced guys some tips, but actually teaching waponry like our knives is very very personal to me. I understand the reasons why not to as i too have had very oldskool tradtional values placed on my head!
Listen, my Sifu frowned at me for wanting to share our family pole form o I understand the restrictions of the loyal student!! I do not think for one second that showing off what we can do is going to get us anywhere. Happy Tiger can start as many threads as he lkes, but it will not change the fact that I am right.
NOBODY on here has shared their knife set, or even a glimpse of a single method from their knife set!!! So this discussion is pretty much left to the imagination and if you get scared at the thought of someone rushing you like a loon in an attempt to stab you with a littl toothpick (My Sifus words lol!) then I for one believe you are not ready for the Pole, let alone the knives!!!
John started the thread criticizing the clip, but still I have yet to see his ‘Wing Chun’ blades in any serious action…
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1167583]Personally, I couldn’t frown at the barbarians because I am one!! It’s all in my name given to me by my Sifu
As has my Sifu, and his before him Joy. I too have never taught anyone yet. Now I have shared with some of the more experienced guys some tips, but actually teaching waponry like our knives is very very personal to me. I understand the reasons why not to as i too have had very oldskool tradtional values placed on my head!
Listen, my Sifu frowned at me for wanting to share our family pole form o I understand the restrictions of the loyal student!! I do not think for one second that showing off what we can do is going to get us anywhere. Happy Tiger can start as many threads as he lkes, but it will not change the fact that I am right.
NOBODY on here has shared their knife set, or even a glimpse of a single method from their knife set!!! So this discussion is pretty much left to the imagination and if you get scared at the thought of someone rushing you like a loon in an attempt to stab you with a littl toothpick (My Sifus words lol!) then I for one believe you are not ready for the Pole, let alone the knives!!!
John started the thread criticizing the clip, but still I have yet to see his ‘Wing Chun’ blades in any serious action…[/QUOTE]
I have posted clips with p Bayer using kinves v knives. Knives v pole. Think butcher.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1167585]I have posted clips with p Bayer using kinves v knives. Knives v pole. Think butcher.[/QUOTE]
I know Kev. But that’s my point. Where are YOUR clips??
FWIW I have no fondness for comparing our knife methods to that of a butcher becaue that is just wrong!! 
NOBODY on here has shared their knife set, or even a glimpse of a single method from their knife set!!!
Most lineages have clips of seniors doing their knife sets and applications on Youtube, or for sale on DVD. Search “butterfly sword video” on youtube, you’ll find plenty. My lineage’s set is easily findable ..unless you are a moron.
No one NEEDS to make a vid of themselves, particularly just to satisfy the demands of some insistent dweeb in Britain.
If you really think there is some conspiracy to keep this stuff hidden, you have your head up your a$$.
[QUOTE=trubblman;1167582]I don’t think anyone missed the point. Everything you wrote is a given. But if you are learning unarmed knife defense, learn effective unarmed knife defense. What was shown in the original video is more likely than not will get you killed much more quickly than an effective knife defense.
An effective knife defense may get you killed too. You just might have stand a better chance than doing what was shown in the Shawn’s video.
The difference maybe an increase in your favor from 1% to say 9%.
Here’s my critique of the defense.
#1 Too many moves by the defender.
#2 The attacker attacked in an wholly unrealistic manner.[/QUOTE]
Let me take that back then. You are right. It was not realistic in any event. However, my point is or was that even though you are pretty much going to get cut, you have to make a showing. It is best that you develop or learn something that can be applied in such an event. A technique I have used a few times goes like this. I was trying to get a large fellow settled down and had already called the waitress to bring him and his girl a drink on the house. His buddy, who had been eyeing me throughout the entire fracus just stepped up and lunged at me with his right hand. He had a pocket knife and I almost got out of the way. Almost. It caught me in the belly, but only pierced about half an inch, but tore out again about 4 inches later. I felt the burn, but instantly grabbed his arm and wrist, shoving him backwards as hard as I could. We went back about 10 feet or so until he backed into a booth. He was forced backwards over the back corner of the booth and I kneed him real hard in the crotch, then I forced his wrist inwards until the knife fell out of his hand. I then let him go down toward the floor and kicked him full in the face. That was not pretty, and I seriously doubt one could have guessed what system I was using. It only required one real move until I forced the wrist inwards. So I guess that is 2 moves not counting the shoving action. A person can not counter as long as he is off balance. He can not regain his balance as long as you continue the action that took him off balance. If you can force him back into something that shares his personal space, he is completely helpless. However, if you do not continue the action and allow him to recover, he just might then gain the advantage and proceed to kill you.
DBMA: Die less often video series.
Get it, train it, drill it, understand it, have a better chance at surviving.
I didn’t watch the whole video, but the first couple things I watched looked almost just like the FMA based stuff we were originally taught in the police academy against knives. It was riding the force as it came in before applying a joint lock.
[QUOTE=anerlich;1167597]Most lineages have clips of seniors doing their knife sets and applications on Youtube, or for sale on DVD. Search “butterfly sword video” on youtube, you’ll find plenty. My lineage’s set is easily findable ..unless you are a moron.
No one NEEDS to make a vid of themselves, particularly just to satisfy the demands of some insistent dweeb in Britain.
If you really think there is some conspiracy to keep this stuff hidden, you have your head up your a$$.[/QUOTE]
I almost forgot about this little treasure
Firstly, your ‘lineage’ is who exactly? It was Rick Spains ‘Hung Suen’ group wasn’t it? I noticed that thread die a quick death…
And your search suggestion seems a little ‘dweeby’ too
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=butterfly+sword+video&oq=butterfly+sword+video&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_nf=1&gs_l=youtube.3...547.5969.0.6594.21.17.0.2.2.0.375.1780.0j4j3j1.8.0.
Secondly, I do not believe in conspiracies I simply believe in truth and the truth is you just can’t help yourself can you? You have to throw at least one insult in your posts directed at me for your own desperate pleasure. I can do the same all day long if that’s all you want to do here.
If that’s what rocks your boat ‘Opera’ MMA boy, please continue!! 
It was Rick Spains ‘Hung Suen’ group wasn’t it? I noticed that thread die a quick death…
It died a quick death because there was nothing to it. I answered the questions posed. Is there something you feel I am hiding or need to explain?
I can do the same all day long if that’s all you want to do here.
Your choice.
And your search suggestion seems a little ‘dweeby’ too
I was considering the target audience, yourself.
If that’s what rocks your boat ‘Opera’ MMA boy
“rocks your red boat” would have been cleverer, but I’m mindful of your limitations.