but here is the thing, to say that kungfu guys only will ever compete in a format made just for kungfu guys, well then…why not branch out and try other things?
there has to be some kungfu guys who are interested in MMA and using their kungfu in MMA style format.
what about you masterkiller, ive read some posts you have put up about using your kungfu in mma style formats.
i dont really know where your at with that, but do you find other guys doing the same kind of thing?
dang maybe i need to hit up an mma gym and try it out since it seems not really many any other kungfu guys in the world want to or are even willing/not afraid to do this.
kungfu guys think they have so much to lose by making the jump
[QUOTE=BruceSteveRoy;752585] the only style i have ever seen that does san shou with a great deal of consistancy is jow ga. there may be jow schools that choose not to fight san shou and use the traditional stances or whatever but i have not seen them. otherwise i have seen some hung gar schools that do and some that don’t, some choy li fut that do and some that don’t. its abotu the school.[/QUOTE]
best answer so far that doesn’t try to dodge my question with excessive qualifiers.
someone also mentioned jow ga previously, so that confirms it. the other styles you listed are also southern kung-fu styles. so it looks like southern kung-fu does more san shou than northern.
kungfu guys think they have so much to lose by making the jump
They won’t really lose or win anything. I think it was Seven who pointed out that the mainstream public in relation to joining a martial art school does not care anyway.
A lot of commerical schools make there money off of normal people joining for many different reasons, most of them being far off the mma path.
[QUOTE=xmma;752591]best answer so far that doesn’t try to dodge my question with excessive qualifiers.
someone also mentioned jow ga previously, so that confirms it. the other styles you listed are also southern kung-fu styles. so it looks like southern kung-fu does more san shou than northern.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
Yeah, that’s a safe assumption based on two internet message board threads. Bruce is in Maryland, where Jow Ga is prevelant. COme to Dallas and see how many Jow Ga fighters are in the San Shou divisions. It’s mostly N. Praying Mantis and Long Fist in these parts (plus the SC folks from Austin). Why? Because those are the most prevelant types of schools that are located in this part of the country.
Seems like you are just fishing until someone confirms what you already believe.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;752594]It’s mostly N. Praying Mantis and Long Fist in these parts (plus the SC folks from Austin). Why? Because those are the most prevelant types of schools that are located in this part of the country.
Seems like you are just fishing until someone confirms what you already believe.[/QUOTE]
thanks for finally answering my question. it took a blanket statement to get you to, tho.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;752584]I’ve said it before, TCMA people need to learn that just because your ancestors were fighters doesn’t mean you are. You are only as good as what you are doing TODAY. Lama Pai doesn’t rest on what Wong Yan Lam did 100 years ago.[/QUOTE]
A statement based on not reading my post,
Of course we actively fight and have since the early days it is in a schools best interest to continue such an important tradition
Li SHu wen was a almost a century ago, bodygaurd work is active over the entire histoy, and military applications are refined but encompass the same exact principles of train fight train fighting in ring or out. and i always have an active san shou program and always will (until i just can not keep up) A coach should train as much as possible with their fighters and age becomes a big factor so it is important to pass on the importance of such a practice to our understudies as my master passed to me and so on.
[QUOTE=xmma;752603]thanks for finally answering my question. it took a blanket statement to get you to, tho.[/QUOTE]
Dude, it’s arbitrary. If you go to Southern Cali, they will have a different answer based on what schools are locate there…Seattle, same thing.
It all comes down to individual schools. It just so happens that in different parts of the country, there are more schools of one or two styles, and consequently, those styles represent more at local events.
[QUOTE=xmma;752603]thanks for finally answering my question. it took a blanket statement to get you to, tho.[/QUOTE]
Dude, it’s arbitrary. If you go to Southern Cali, they will have a different answer based on what types of schools are located there…Seattle, same thing.
It all comes down to individual schools. It just so happens that in different parts of the country, there are more schools of one or two styles, and consequently, those styles represent more at local and regional events.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;752607]Dude, it’s arbitrary. If you go to Southern Cali, they will have a different answer based on what types of schools are located there…Seattle, same thing.
It all comes down to individual schools. It just so happens that in different parts of the country, there are more schools of one or two styles, and consequently, those styles represent more at local and regional events.[/QUOTE]
that’s great. what styles are known for their heavy involvement in san shou competitions in s. cali and seattle?
“i would like to see even just ONE “kungfu master” step into an MMA match and show us whats up.”
It is not completely unheard of. Jason Delucia competed in the first few UFCs. He evolved his game after being beat by grapplers (namely Royce Gracie). The problem is most argue someone like Delucia who has had success in MMA changed from a Kung Fu style of training to MMA style of training. Does that take away from his Kung Fu. Not neccessarily. Most strikes you find in MMA can be found in Kung Fu styles, it is the training methods that set them apart. Most Kung Fu styles do not have grappling and this is a flaw. No one argues anymore that you don’t have to have grappling basics (at least anyone who knows what they are talking about) to survive the takedown. So if your Kung Fu lacks grappling, cross train and learn. But the thing is you do not see any one style fighting in MMA. Thus the term, mixed martial arts. You may see a BJJ or Muay Thai fighter but they will rarely be successful if they do not have the counter part to their style
(grappling or stand up). Everything evolves or it dies. Good Kung Fu has evolved, bad Kung Fu has not.
Why would a kung fu man want to compete in MMA? To do so he would have to learn a different martial art, BJJ, that he doesn’t need. You only need to be a good ground fighter in sporting events that involve ground fighting. You only need a very limited amount of knowledge about ground fighting for the street, because you don’t fight other MA in street. You fight knownothing peons. To counter and untrained street fighters ground and pound does not take years of grappling experience, and knowledge of countless locks and submissions. For BJJ you’d only need to know the transitions to get to a dominate position, a few months worth or material to learn tops.
Why not just chose a venue that allows the kung fu man to use what he has? Like San Shou or K-1. People say that now day’s you have to know ground fighting, but that is only true for MMA. Not that many BJJ experts run around mugging people right?
its just strange to me that out of the thousand and thousands, millions of martial artists out there. there arent really any kungfu guys learning a groundgame and going in the ring with it to fight MMA.
its just odd is all…i suppose the same could be said for all TMA right?
kungfu isnt alone in this…right? or is it?
funnything i was on the IFL website, when you read thier description and development of MMA, several styles of MA are listed, but not kungfu…even TKD beat out kungfu on an MMA sight…now it has always been my belief that a good solid kungfu lineage would have a very in depth knowledge of fighting. more than your average TKD…so why do MMA guys give more credit to TKD as a martial art than kungfu?
you see where im going? I see some serious predjiduce regarding kungfu from MMA guys. on an average.
why is this so? is it because kungfu has been the least represented art in MMA matches since the conception of the sport?
[QUOTE=SanHeChuan;752710]
Why not just chose a venue that allows the kung fu man to use what he has? Like San Shou or K-1. People say that now day’s you have to know ground fighting, but that is only true for MMA. Not that many BJJ experts run around mugging people right?[/QUOTE]
So, after you throw a guy, or knock him down, what do you think happens? Does he melt? What about the kid who wrestled in high school or college? May not be a problem for you, but I live in Iowa, and they’re all over the place here. Even if I were inclined to ignore the ground in my training, I’d be an idiot to actually do it.
This leaves aside football players, slick ground and unsure footing, being attacked when you’re already prone or seated, getting knocked down yourself…
Don’t compete MMA. I don’t care. Don’t train the ground. I don’t care. You’re a big boy, do what you like.
[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;752677] It is not completely unheard of. Jason Delucia competed in the first few UFCs. He evolved his game after being beat by grapplers (namely Royce Gracie). The problem is most argue someone like Delucia who has had success in MMA changed from a Kung Fu style of training to MMA style of training. Does that take away from his Kung Fu. Not neccessarily. Most strikes you find in MMA can be found in Kung Fu styles, it is the training methods that set them apart. Most Kung Fu styles do not have grappling and this is a flaw. No one argues anymore that you don’t have to have grappling basics (at least anyone who knows what they are talking about) to survive the takedown. So if your Kung Fu lacks grappling, cross train and learn. But the thing is you do not see any one style fighting in MMA. Thus the term, mixed martial arts. You may see a BJJ or Muay Thai fighter but they will rarely be successful if they do not have the counter part to their style
(grappling or stand up). Everything evolves or it dies. Good Kung Fu has evolved, bad Kung Fu has not.[/QUOTE]
I’m glad you mentioned him - do a search of him on kfm and kfo… almost every CMA guy here not only criticized him, but said that he wasn’t a real CMA in the first place.
[QUOTE=LeeCasebolt;752714]So, after you throw a guy, or knock him down, what do you think happens? Does he melt? What about the kid who wrestled in high school or college? May not be a problem for you, but I live in Iowa, and they’re all over the place here. Even if I were inclined to ignore the ground in my training, I’d be an idiot to actually do it.
This leaves aside football players, slick ground and unsure footing, being attacked when you’re already prone or seated, getting knocked down yourself…
Don’t compete MMA. I don’t care. Don’t train the ground. I don’t care. You’re a big boy, do what you like.[/QUOTE]
you know, i have met many and read about even many more kungfu guys who have learned multiple styles of kungfu.
why not make one of your multiple styles a ground game. there is no difference in taking time for a 5th kungfu style and your first ground style…
my last kungfu teacher (trained very traditionaly whilst growing up a monk in a temple in cambodia ) was forced by his grandmaster to learn judo. He gets introduced to a japanese judo guy. another monk from some temple in japan who is friends with my old sifu’s gm.
as the story goes:
Judo Sensei: Would you like to learn judo from me?
my old sifu: no
judo sensei procedes to throw my old sifu around the place against full resistance.
Judo Sensei: would you like to learn judo from me?
my old sifu: no thank you
judo sensei procedes to throw my old sifu around with full resistance even more rigirously than before.
Judo Sensei: now would you like to learn my judo?
my old sifu: no i dont.
Judo sensei procedes to throw my old sifu around with full resistance to the point of breaking him.
