Like Water Dragon has in the past, I knew you’d ignore the questions I asked you. No problem. I can imagine how much it must hurt to actually say the words. 
5 Steps Positional Strategies:
No one here has been able to detail a practical understanding of these concepts. My first-year guys have used these ideas in the ring, and one of them repelled an attacker outside of a night club by applying Tai Chi’s basic ideas. This was after he’d only been training for a couple of months. He said all he could remember was what he’d trained in his first street-level Tai Chi session. Was his back straight? Did he have good ground-path? Was his mouth closed? Did he have the correct “springiness” as he sent the guy into a wall? :rolleyes:
Functional, Internal Fighting Method:
Fu-Pow, you broached this topic with nothing but theory. You “teach” others by “forcing” them out of their natural being? You and I have vastly different approaches to how one develops functional fighting method. That’s where I was hoping to lead our discussion in asking you the questions I asked in my last response to you. No matter now.
Testing One’s Basic Skill-sets In The Ring and On The Mat.
No one else does this on the same level as my training partners and I. 'nuff said…
Tai Chi Fast-wrestling.
When I first started talking about my schoolÕs Tai Chi Fast-wrestling program on kfo, I had all the local legends here respond kinda like Black Jack did when he posted; “Please :rolleyes: …can you point me to ANY websites where I can get more information on Tai Chi Ground-fighting?” And it went downhill from there, so it never got discussed again.
Chi Kung and Its Relation To “Tactical Awarenes”:
Shen Wu’s, Sum Guye, couldnÕt tell if i was Òjoking or dillutedÓ when I mentioned to him that my school has one routine for ground and one for standing in our curriculum. This stuff is very basic to how my training partners develop their internal fighting method. They get it on the first day, and continue to develop until theyÕre ready to learn the form, standing post, etc. Function before form…not the other way around. Maybe thatÕs why they can actually apply their internal fighting method within a few weeks of beginning their study.
Chi Kung As A Performance-based Facet of Combat Athletics:
Something else IÕve yet to see discussed on any forum (save for Scott SonnonÕs forums). This internal development goes hand-in-hand with the above ideas. This is the internal method of preparation for the playerÕs in my school engaging the sportive arena.
This stuff is very basic, simple, and proofed under pressure. These are my basics. That’s why I say that what you detailed isn’t consistant with my experience. Granted, what you posted does involve the basics of internalization, but not practical for the beginner. Anyone claiming to teach Tai Chi Chuan as a self-defense system needs to ask themself what they can give a trainee now, today, that they can take out of the training hall and apply effectively and immediately. Everything else is just fluff.
IMA and its approach to short sticks and knives:
Find Chris Mckinley and get him into your school for a seminar. Whatever the cost.
Originally posted by Fu-Pow
[B]
Too much of the conversation on this board is centered around which style or faction or faction of a style is better than the other. The amount of time and dedication that the individual puts in is much more important in the long term.
Shooter-
Let me just to respond to all your smartass remarks by asking you this. Was Taiji always coupled with Taoist philosophy from its inception? Or was it that Taiji already embodied Taoist principles and someone recognized this and connected the two? I’ll let you make the call in all your infinite wisdom. [/B]
I dont mean to be a jerk and point this out but this post is a wee bit contradictory!
Shooter I really don’t understand what you’re disagreeing with me on? Are you saying that people don’t need to train they only need to understand the principles? I disagree and I definitely wouldn’t count on that in a street fight. Unless you’ve practiced things over and over again your gonna resort to your “naturally” untrained movements. BTW, when I was speaking about training it was in regards to Choy Lay Fut, not Taiji. I’m not in any position to teach Taiji as this is not my main focus. And although my experience in Taiji is half that in CLF I have somewhat of an idea of what the elementary training is like.
As I stated at the beginning of this thread Taiji (an internal style) and Choy Lay Fut (an primarily external style) have different methods and different strategies but they can both produce competent functional fighters. You can’t say that the movement principles of Taiji apply to Kung Fu because at least intitially the strategies are different. (I might note that there are advanced CLF internal forms that resemble Taiji and the strategies for these movements resemble Taiji, but these are very different from the basic external form)
The overriding principle of consistent quality practice with lots of repetition applies to both.
I’d also like to advise you to pull that 7 inch metal pine cone out of your a$$.
“You get my point…it’s not the style, internal or external. Its all about the person, how well they’ve utilized their training time and how they can make their art “function” in a fight.”
But you won’t get the person without having an Art~/Style~/System.
If you’re confused as to what I don’t agree with, re-read my earlier replies on this thread.
I don’t know what experience or knowledge you’re drawing from in your comments about a “street fight” and how your ideas on training will address that type of situation. It seems to follow the basic premise you originally presented as a formula by which a functional fighter is trained, and it isn’t consistant with my own experiences and knowledge.
Are you saying that people don’t need to train they only need to understand the principles?
Huh? How did you even get that impression from what I wrote?
I’d also like to advise you to pull that 7 inch metal pine cone out of your a$$.
I don’t know how emotionally involved you are in this discussion, but don’t project it onto me. I have no personal stake in sharing my infinite wisdom with you. The fact is, I can tell by reading your posts that I have a far greater understanding of practical Tai Chi Chuan (internal fighting method…and external for that matter) than yourself. There it is…take it however you want.
Shooter,
Thanks for the recommendation. I’m honored by your mention. 
Hey Shooter…I’m “shooting” you on over to my Ignore List. It doesn’t seem like your “25+” years of experience has taught you a god**** thing.
Originally posted by Shooter
Like Water Dragon has in the past, I knew you’d ignore the questions I asked you. No problem. I can imagine how much it must hurt to actually say the words.
Uh, Shooter. You’re the one who uses a lot of big words but never really says anything on this forum.
It’s the Tao
It’s all Taichi
I have a practical understanding
It’s the 5 steps
But never anything concrete in any of your posts.
You may be very good, one of the best. But until you actually come out and say something, anything practical, it’s really a moot point.
I may not be the best, but at least I’m willing to share the little knowledge do have even if it leaves me open for scrutiny.
In case anyone didn’t know already…Water Dragon is da man. 
Very helpful and straight forward with his knowledge.
LOL Whatever, Fu-Pow.
But until you actually come out and say something, anything practical,
Water Dragon, how many Tai Chi schools do you know of to field fighters in MMA? You can’t be reading my posts very carefully if you’re missing all the good stuff. Why is that?
Jimmy Crickets and a bottle of my grandma’s douche will you get off my back!
Shooter, man I am telling you, just like the last conversation we freakin had, that I did not state nor ask anything negative about Tai Chi fast wrestling with the one single exception of asking you a honest question about if you know catch wrestling!!!
The only reason I asked that question was that for some unkown reason I had it in my brainpan that you incorporated catch into your MMA training! If for some reason I am missing a exchange we had, where I was being a ball buster, please let me know and I will pass off a apology.
Which is kinda weird as all I believe I have ever said on here was how great it is to see a Tai Chi Ch’uan school break the mold and enter MMA tourney’s and train with such a straight on traditional approach to giving there students practical self defense training in the now and not the later.
What the hell?
Black Jack, you asked me to quote you once, and I finally found the printout. It was long time ago and I have the thread printed. It was lost here during the change-over. No worries, man…you’re still a legend in my book.
Smart ass!!
That’s it, I am going to master all 4 main tai chi systems, sun, wu, chen, yang, and we will see who is the master. Get ready for my frow and glowing hands ala the Last Dragon…Call me Leroy bistach!
Better yet, I think I will just send you 10 unordered pizzas, less chance of getting hurt.
Black Jack, no anchovies though, OK?
Keep doing what you’re doing here. It’s helping a lot of people find some of the things which have been discarded or forgotten in CMAs.
Peace.
fu-pow translation “no-mind”
Originally posted by Fu-Pow
Hey Shooter…I’m “shooting” you on over to my Ignore List. It doesn’t seem like your “25+” years of experience has taught you a god**** thing.
I would beg to differ fu-pow. But you putting Shooter on your ignore list speaks volumes about your level of ignorance.
Truthfully, I don’t know any Taiji schools that field MMA fighters. I did come from a school with a very solid and respectable San Shou record though.
And yeah, I musta missed the good stuff. I’ll have to go back and look for it again.
Are we still talking Internal external?
Guys, this is simple, Exteran;l genrates power from the limbs, and transferes it throught the torso (Legs to hips to shoulders and finnaly arms and fist)
Internal adds a power multiplacation through an action based in the troso itself. This gives substatially more power for hitting, blocking or redirecting.
IF you have the power genration based in the Torso, it’s internal, if not it’s external. What style you study matters not, I can do frikin Karate internally if I add the propper mechanics. OR I can do Taji externally if I leave the mechanics out.
Many arts have both internal and exteranl mechanics in them, just done at different times.
WD, remember the spinal Whip motion MJ was trying to teach us?? THAT is internal.
well said royal dragon…
…now the your water brother can stop wasting our time…
-see pussification thread…(im ranting tonight..sorry)
Gary
Re: Are we still talking Internal external?
Originally posted by Royal Dragon
[B]Guys, this is simple, Exteran;l genrates power from the limbs, and transferes it throught the torso (Legs to hips to shoulders and finnaly arms and fist)
Internal adds a power multiplacation through an action based in the troso itself. This gives substatially more power for hitting, blocking or redirecting.
IF you have the power genration based in the Torso, it’s internal, if not it’s external. What style you study matters not, I can do frikin Karate internally if I add the propper mechanics. OR I can do Taji externally if I leave the mechanics out.
Many arts have both internal and exteranl mechanics in them, just done at different times.
WD, remember the spinal Whip motion MJ was trying to teach us?? THAT is internal. [/B]
Torso? You mean how good external arts do it? Anyway, internal means coordinating external and internal harmonies. External harmonies for the whole body relaxed movement, and internal harmonies to use ‘qi’ instead of ‘li’ for power.
Of course, leading the ‘qi’ with the mind can be interpreted as using micro adjusetments to the muscles in the body so the body creates a ‘spring’ or a relaxed groundpath from the ground to the point of the contact which can be manipulated by the expanding of the joints for opening. And gravity with closing of the joints for closing. There, I used almost everyone’s terminolgy here.
Anyway, I’m probably talking out of my arse here, but that’s what I currently believe. And if you feel the movement of high-high level players such has Wang PeiShan, Chen Xiao Wang et al., they say there is a difference. Anyway, I’m going to a Chen Xiao Wang seminare in a few months and hopefully, I will be able to find out if his movements and touch are really different from normal people.
Anyway, it is true that a good internal practicener can do Karate internaly. But it is very true that Taiji can be done externally. Heck, most people do play taiji externally and probably don’t know about it due to ego problems, denial, ignorance, etc., Maybe an intervention is in order.