Absolutely no absolutes…
Originally posted by Ralek
[B]
The reason Kung fu has lost is becuase it doesnt’ work. Kung fu is just a bunch of forms and prearagned drills. This makes good looking forms and drills but it doesn’t create any fighitng ability. In fact kung fu actually HINDERS your fighting ability. You fight how you train and when you train to be in funny stances and throw ineffective techniques you will lose. It’s been proven time and time again that you are better off just fighitng like a drunk and throwing haymakers than using kung fu.
BJJ, Muay thai, wrestling. These 3 styles consitantly win. Some styles are effective and some are not.
But it’s just as naive to say that all styles work as it is to say that all styles suck.
Do all styles suck? No.
Do all styles work? No.
Do some styles work? Yes.
Styles that work = BJJ, Wrestling, Muay thai, kickboxing, Sambo, boxing
Don’t let opinions get in the way. Look to the results of actual fights. [/B]
Wow. I guess that covers all of reality fighting. You’ve won the argument, now we can move on to the next assanine post. BTW, did you guys know that Rorion Gracie sponsored and selected the “Martial Artists” that fought in those initial UFCs? UFC was really a debut of GJJ in America (although it had been here for many years). Over the years many people had drifted from the less-flashy grappling-based arts and were training in the striking arts. Rorion wanted respect for his father’s style. Oh, and BTW that Heavyweight champ was really a Cruiser Weight ex-Champ (WBO?). Prior to UFC, I had never heard of those “champions” and BBs that fought in it. I guess if UFC and its promotions staff says that they were champs then that makes it so. Just like Raleks opinion. Think about it.
Ralek/Rolls claims that the grappling sports and striking sports are the most effective in these matches. With the quality of strikers that have been a part of MMAs in the past, I wouldn’t brag about success rates. Hell, Royce has been training since he was an embryo. He was a true master technician of his artform. Those other cats were scrubs, and wanna-be tough guys. There were some exceptions though.
The strikers with real skill like Maurice Smith, Keith Hackney and Chuck Lidell (who is still awesome) came from a very strong kickboxing or Kenpo Karate background. To think that a kickboxer is different than a traditionalist who is good at full-contact kumite, is just naive. Most good karate guys are good at forms AND kickboxing. That’s just the facts. Anyway, Kenpo isn’t the most feared style amongst classical practitioners. They are no better or worse than a good traditional Chuan Fa or Karate Black Sash/Belt. They just train for NHB events differently, and part of that training is to become acclimated to standing and ground grappling (if they already aren’t).
When it comes to opinions about what actual fights are or aren’t then we may have a disagreement there. I’ve seen lots of real life fights since I was young, and they are NOTHING like the controlled adrenalin-rush of a confrontation that is not life-or-death. The key here is “life-or-death”. If you’re an adult knucklehead who wants to fight me for some ill-conceived reason, then you gotta know (or maybe you won’t have a clue) I’m asking for no quarter 'cause, definitely, none will be given. You gotta understand that the way some folks approach training is like that. Nothing else. Ever. They trust in their own judgement, and the teachings of their instructor(s). They don’t give a flying frick what some uninitiated fool wants reality to be. That is something the individual practitoners figure out for themselves.
Donn Draeger was a very accomplished Judoka. He did Judo when it was a lot like what you see in NHB events now. Newaza heavy. His knowledge of the various fighting arts of Asia and the world was astounding. He was the only non-Japanese to hold the rank of Budo Kyoshi (Master of the Warriors Way). He was the first non-Japanese Judo instructor at the famous Kodokan in Tokyo. He held several BBs in numerous systems. He was an accomplished Western Boxer. He was a real Gaijin Samurai if there is such a thing. He was good friends with John Bluming and Kimura (who beat Helio Gracie). He was respected highly by all who trained, sparred or came in contact with him. Although he admired the raw destructiveness of Kodokan Judo and the Samurai traditions, he also understood the fighting acumen of TCMA great Wang Shujin (Neijia). A friend of Draeger, Wang would often visit him in Japan and put on demonstrations where he would take on all challengers regardless of style. He was never defeated. While staying with Don he would often use the support posts of the hosts house as a kind of Makiwara. He would shake the house at its foundations, and often guests would stare in awe at his strength and technique. His knowledge of Tai Chi was extraordinary, and he knew how to use it for real self-protection. Draeger and Bluming would often challenge blow-hards and MAs “experts”. They would often be denied. Sometimes they sparred the cat and whupped him real good. Don never, ever even considered challenging Wang and other Chinese martial artists like him. Mr. Draeger would remark that it would probably be the last challenge he would or could ever make.
He also co-wrote a book called “Shaolin Lohan Kung Fu”. He writes on page 162… (Regarding the Okinawan, Japanese and Korean karate-like arts) “Another salient difference between Shaolin and the karate-like arts of Korea, Okinawa and Japan is that in shaolin there is no emphasis placed on any kind of combative contact practice. There is no free-exercise kind of approach to the use of technique for the purpose of testing the relative skills of the exponents,either in training or sporting competition. No really conclusive test is possible between exponents of shaolin except that which is made in a real fight, for shaolin techniques are inherently dangerous ones and do not easily lend themselves to control measures such as may be applied through expedients such as contest rules or the use of protective body armor. Shaolin, in its orthodox form, is not a game to be played for the entertainment of an audience or the whims of sports-minded exponents…”
According to Draeger, who wrote this book after his lifelong study in many combat related arts, forms, two-man application drills, body-hardening and other supplemental training made the shaolin practitioners very deadly and effective fighters. No MMAs training required.
Food for thought.
)