agreed about the romanization! lol
I’ve only been training WC for a couple of years, so have much more to learn about each hand 
thanks for the info though
david
Kei lun
Hi Mate,
Could you ask about mung fu chut lum , mung fu ha san, and fu bo, if they are the same form but changed through generations from teacher to teacher?
Also what proof is there that sek sze was made from sek sifu? Is there any pictures of sek sifu? It was called ying jow sup jee kol da/sa/la kuen originally! Any idea’s?
Does your say mun bqua have a section at the start with fu jow ripping techniques as you step forwards? left and right hand then, gou gin sau/choy(scissor hands) step across and repeat opposite legs and hands(fu jow)?
thanks
Garry:)
…yes Kei Lun…
…it was you. Thank you for lurking around this thread and elucidating a bit more this question.
EAZ
Did I say something wrong?
FT:
Sorry, I dont have any proof about the origins of Sek See Keun. As for it being originally called “Ying Jau Sup Ji Kau Da Sa La Keun” Im not too sure what your getting at on that one. Ying Jau (of Bak Mei) and Sup Ji Kau Da (of Bak Mei) are seperate forms.
On the Tiger forms of Bak Mei, there are 3 forms: Man Foo Cheut Lum, Man Foo Ha San, and Haak Foo Keun. They are different forms. The form known as Foo Bo was, as I was told, the same form as Man Foo Cheut Lum, and that name came from the Bak Mei group in Fut Shan. They practice a little different than the KwangZhao schools.
Since you asked, our Sei Moon Baat Gwa form begins the same as Daai Sek See Keun, to the point where you step out (about 10-15 moves into the form). From there there is a series of Biu Jee and Sut Choei (3) which ends with Gum Jin Sau. Following that you turn around and repeat it on the other side in the opposite stance. Perhaps the Biu Jee that we use is a Tiger Claw in your system!
EAZ:
Im not too sure what your beef is with me. But you do use some big words, just like that last guy that was out to get me. Hideous I believe it was, but your not him I suppose!?
I didnt mention anything about how the form was taught. I didnt say that everyone practices but half of the form, I dont know who practices what. And I dont live in Canada!
Sorry to disturb your guys thread!
Kei Lun
Hmmmm. Interesting. I will ask my Sifu about our Fu Bo (“…, the same form as Man Foo Cheut Lum…”), as I practice Futshan Bak Mei. Our Sup Gee is a comprised of both Sup Gee and Stone Lion.
Kei Lun
Thanks Mate,
Man kwong Fongs sup jee tape says it was called sup jee ying jow kol da/la kuen i think as well.
I see the ying jow and the kol la as the same technique of course, so kol la/da and sa are ying jow techniques as you are seizing. The form i have been shown is ying jow sup jee kol da/sa/la kuen i have 3. As well as SEK SZE i have, maybe it doesnt come from sek sifu i think.
In say mun b,gua after sut choy we kol la quickly jerk and half step and then sut choy opposite hand and repeat very southern mantis like.
take care
FT:)
Kei Lun: sorry my words missinterpreted
Originally posted by kei lun
[B]Did I say something wrong?
EAZ:
Im not too sure what your beef is with me. But you do use some big words, just like that last guy that was out to get me. Hideous I believe it was, but your not him I suppose!?
I didnt mention anything about how the form was taught. I didnt say that everyone practices but half of the form, I dont know who practices what. And I dont live in Canada!
[/B]
Kei Lun: I am sorry you read into my words anything negative. I meant only to thank you for reading the thread and contributing to it.
I regret that you read this:
“…it was you. Thank you for lurking around this thread and elucidating a bit more this question.”
as something negative. Amazing how one’s words can be interpreted as meaning the opposite of their real intent.
I reiterate my thoughts to clear things up: thank you for contributing to this thread Kei Lun.
Man Foo Cheut Lum, Man Foo Ha San, and Haak Foo Keun
-
Can someone please translate the meaning of the third form described here?
-
Can someone tell me if any of these forms has a movement ressembling double upward strike (both hands) with wrists. Perhaps you may even repeat this movement 3 times…
Thanks,
EAZ
Eaz
Haak Foo = BLACK TIGER kuen=fist
Same form different versions again as it went from generation to generation.
FT
Sou Hut Yee
Sou Hut Yee was known as Beggar Sou and was one of the ten Tigers of Canton and also one of the four top Doctors in southern China with Wong Fei Hung .I think he practiced the Beggars Kung Fu style Lam Shek also practiced this style .
FT:
I have heard that name before from Man Kwong Fong. I have also heard from alot of schools a form called Sek See Sup Ji Keun. Like I said, we say Siu Sek See is Siu Sup Ji, and Daai Sek See is Daai Sup Ji, as they are both Cross Pattern forms. Perhaps I am wrong that it is from Lam Sek, just what I was told. But I dont know why that is upsetting, what does it matter where the name came from.
And yeah, Ying Jau is the same as Kau La. In all the forms there is Diu Taai Kau La movement.
Fire Hawk:
Sou Hut Yee was one of the 10 tigers of canton. He was a Beggar’s Stylist and famous for his Drunken Boxing. Lam Sek learned from his line and thats where Jeui Hut Yee Keun (Drunken Beggars Fist) came into Bak Mei. The HK or Vietnam branch also has this form but they changed the name, I dont remember to what.
EAZ:
There are quite a few uppward movements in Man Foo Ha San and Haak Foo Keun, usually an upward tiger claw used for raising the opponents elbow, or to his face, or whatever. There are a few sets of three tiger claw movements but none are uppward (in my lineage).
Bolt:
I was never in touch with many of the FutShan Bak Mei guys. They came to our meetings but I didnt talk with them much. Do you guys follow the same history story that Eddie Chong does? The story that has a different founder of Bak Mei and didnt come from CLC.
Im just speaking for my line guys. This is what I have learned and have been told, I dont necessarily believe it to be more right than others information so please dont jump on me eh.
Kei Lun
Tam Cong
Originally posted by kei lun
[B]FT:
Fire Hawk:
Sou Hut Yee was one of the 10 tigers of canton. He was a Beggar’s Stylist and famous for his Drunken Boxing. Lam Sek learned from his line and thats where Jeui Hut Yee Keun (Drunken Beggars Fist) came into Bak Mei. The HK or Vietnam branch also has this form but they changed the name, I dont remember to what.
EAZ:
There are quite a few uppward movements in Man Foo Ha San and Haak Foo Keun, usually an upward tiger claw used for raising the opponents elbow, or to his face, or whatever. There are a few sets of three tiger claw movements but none are uppward (in my lineage).
[/B]
Don’t know about this form in our Vietnamese lineage, maybe we practice it but I don’t recongnise it it. Can you describe it a bit? Is it related to beggar movement in Serk Si or in 3 gates form?
MFHS: this is the way we do it (upwards claws). There is a form in Vietnamese lineage called Tam Cong, or 3 attacks that comes before MFHS. It involves a series of three double unward wrist strikes (we call them crane strikes). I seem to remember FT telling me once that this movement could be found in a version of MFHS. I’m trying to find out where this comes from. The movement is done with one hand in many previous forms (a bit like in 9 steps before you shuffle sideways back towards strating position) but never in sequence of 3 double strikes.
If you do not have a movement like this in your Guangdong lineage, do you have a) any forms to learn after MFHS b) in which this movement might appear? (It is NOT in 5 elements form).
Bye,
EAZ
Kei Lun
Who is upset? Im was telling you that i have heard that the original name for sup jee or sek sze be it small or large came from a form called ying jow sup jee Kol la or da. Its definitly not upsetting that its called sek sze or sup jee. LOL
Eaz,
I have 3 tiger claws as i move forwards and i have 3 that moves backwards that i learnt from guangzhou that finishes the form. any idea’s on this Kei Lun?
FT:)
The Liou Men Pai of arts were composed of many features it was not systematic. Most of the practitioners originated their skills from the Hung Men styles. As a result Shi Zi is also existant in a different variety in Hung Men. Beggar So was a Hung Men practioner as well (as were many other Liou Men Pai practitioners).
Shi Zi Kau Da is often used as its name as it indicates the the approach of many of the applications. This is the name in Hung Men and it is so called because of leaning against actions within the strikes. In Hung Men the movements defend whilst attacking but without moving the incoming strikes rather deflect whilst entering seemingly to lean. Cai Li Fo also has a set of the same name but considerably different in techniques and concepts of course. Recently, I have seen Liu Jian of the guangdong Hung Fist perform the set very similarily to ours, techniques were the same but the speed was different this is possible due to age :)…
cheers