I’ve noticed this in a lot of MMA fights and K1. It seems to come off quite nicely often. I was taught it in karate some years ago, so I know the basics, but why is this useful?
Surely you can generate as much power by just using a backfist, and not bothering with the spin, no? I see from NHB it seems to follow-on nicely from other long circular attacks like a looping overhand or a low roundhouse kick, but are there any other occasiona when the timing might lend itself to one of these attacks?
Anyone practise and use these regularly in sparring or competition?
Surely you can generate as much power by just using a backfist, and not bothering with the spin, no?
No…absolutely not…
Anyone practise and use these regularly in sparring or competition?
Yeah…I gave Melvin Guillard a standing 8 count once with one…in between him picking me up over his head and slamming me…look for him in Pride or KOTC or something soon…
Basically the reason it is so powerful is it is like taking a huge wind up only you don’t telegraph it as much and is is quicker…it is usually thrown as part of a combination or in the instances that you already mentioned, but can be thrown all by itself…
Oh and if you have to use it in real life, be careful, I wouldn’t hit the guys skull with the back of my hand without gloves and with that much momentum…maybe turn the hand one way of the other so your not hitting with all those little bones in the back of your hand…
Basically the reason it is so powerful is it is like taking a huge wind up only you don’t telegraph it as much and is is quicker…
How is it not telegraphed? You turn your whole body round, so if you’re throwing it on its own surely it’s a dead giveaway?
Oh and if you have to use it in real life, be careful, I wouldn’t hit the guys skull with the back of my hand without gloves and with that much momentum…maybe turn the hand one way of the other so your not hitting with all those little bones in the back of your hand…
Not likely to be using it, given my obvious ignorance about it! Buuut, which part of the hand do you recommend, since if you turn the hand to make it into a hammerfist you’re gonna be making contact with one small bone instead of many…?
I train it and use it at times in sparring. But for this to work you have to really set it up as a surprise. The idea is to execute it when the other guy is covering up. (Like opening with a combination of fast punches, the guy covers up behind his gloves, and then when he opens up - BAM! There’s the back fist.)
My friend got knocked out by this tech in sparring. He got a concussion.
EDIT: this tech is taught in most traditional Wushu schools around here aswell as the Muay Thai clubs.
I’ve used it in sparring from time to time. I think it works well in certain situations because it is deceptive and you can also cover ground with the spin. I’ve used it when either I or my opponent are tryiing to work around behind each other. It usually only takes a half or 3/4 quarter spin and then POW! I should also say that I’ve never hit anyone with this technique full force. I like it.
My longfist instructor knocked me out with a spining backfist, although I wasn’t paying attention and walked right into it.
I saw a guy use a spinning backfist twice in a KOTC match. First one missed, but for the second, the other guy was getting out of his guard and he got nailed by one. I’d say it’s effective…for now. Until people start catching on and looking for it. I think it’s just one of those things that will catch you off gaurd in a competition.
I use it all the time, usually after a level change. I’ll duck a punch, step into the spin with my back leg, rise back to a standing level and whack. I also usually hit with more of a downward slant rather than horizontal.
Me too. A nice combo is (from left foot forward fighting stance) a downward punch (I dunno what you call it, overhand/drop punch) with you’re back hand and use the momentum to spin and do the slightly downward spinning punch with you’re left.
The centripital force of the spin helps you get more energy and momentum than you would ever get from a “stationary-style” back fist.
I like to use a stationary back fist to set up into the spin backfist.
If you are not hitting with th back of the hand (because you have no gear on) you can get an effective strike by using the bottom “hammer-fist” portion of your hand as well.
Mat - you should have a chunk of flesh on your hand to protect the little bone in a hammerfist. That said, once I incorrectly executed a board break with the hammer fist and fractured that bone (hairline)
I think it is more powerful then a regular backfist because you will never be in the postion and angle to your opponent to fully wind up the backfist, while with the spinning punch both postion and windup are integrated.
That said, there are some other variations of the backfist like downward and looping that I’d like to see more of in competition.
How is it not telegraphed? You turn your whole body round, so if you’re throwing it on its own surely it’s a dead giveaway?
Like I said, you can generate a ton of power but since you are spinning to get that power you don’t need to wind up or c o c k back like you would for a haymaker orother straight punch (if you were going for power rather than technique)…there is no need for any wasted motion…generally, the only motion you do is towards your target you are just taking a longer path there…so what I meant when I said it isn’t telegraphed as much as other moves is that when you first move you have started to throw it, it’s not like you are pulling your arm back or some other motion before moving towards the other guy…
Not likely to be using it, given my obvious ignorance about it! Buuut, which part of the hand do you recommend, since if you turn the hand to make it into a hammerfist you’re gonna be making contact with one small bone instead of many…?
I agree with what fajing and GreenCloud said, however I have a book that covers the backfist and which part of the hand to strike with…I will try to find it tonight then post what it says…
One more quick Q Akhilleus… sorry if its’s in your profile, but in what style did you learn spinning backfist?
That’s a good question…it’s not really one of my styles (tien shan pai) traditional techinques…but we still teach it at one of the schools I work at…however, I first learned it in a san shou class…but honestly I didn’t really like the way we were suppose to do it…you ahd to pick up your back leg first then turn…so I felt like this really slowed it down and did telegraph it a bit so I was unable to land many if any spinning backfists…then I saw one of our guys do it in a comp. where he turned his body and then just let his back foot step through naturally at the end…this was much quicker so I started doing it this way and had some success with it…when I was practicing them regularly I would land it most of the time in competition but then I slacked off on it and started missing a lot of them…
The spinning backfist is a great technique. I have some trouble with it but the actual movement works very well in a situation where you may begin to lose your balance, have been pushed, or otherwise unrooted; it seems natural for one to obviously turn back towards the opponent and not expose your back. I find myself always using a backfist or similar biu jee technique when I turn around. This suffices to clear any potential attacks that the opponent may be in the process of conducting, and may become an offensive, distraction, or lead up to something else. It can also be used in the context of faking a turn or appearing like you are cowering and then it just comes swining out!
I like this technique but it is hard to use at my level right now but with practice and continued sparring, I should like to have it as a great technique to rely on!
I was taught the spinning back fist in longfist and thai boxing. My first style, however was tang soo do, and we utilized something called a spinning bottomfist - it’s pretty much the same, but you hit with the meaty, bottom part of the fist - the same surface a hammerfist uses. This is what I tend to use in sparring, and should lessen the chances of breaking bones by using the back of the fist.
i loved the spinning backfist. for some reason i really took to it. i crushed the pads and it wasn’t one of my best techniques in sparring but i wasn’t bad with it.
i did use it in a way i havent seen mentioned yet though. since im short and generally preferred lower stances i struck to the body with them. i never really planned for it or had a stratagy (which is likely why it wasn’t one of my best techniques), but i would just throw it out there whenever i found myself stepping in at a 45 anyway. if i remember right, much more often than not it would slip right under their guard and catch them in the breadbasket. and then i was all like you just got owned by a little man newbie.
Of the tournament knockouts I’ve seen, I would say, undoubtedly that the spinning backfist was responsible for the majority. Easy, powerful and with the extra 16oz at the end of the leash, it delivers a lot of energy into the brain bucket.
The caution is, if you are slow, telegraph or the opponent rushes in, it is easy to attack the elbow to a shattering level.
7# mentioned the spinning hammerfist. That would turn the elbow to a less vulnerable angle, I reckon.
Buuut, which part of the hand do you recommend, since if you turn the hand to make it into a hammerfist you’re gonna be making contact with one small bone instead of many…?