I’m glad you joined this thread because i’ve wanted to find out now for sometime what Hung Fut and Black Tiger share in common.I was told by my Sisuk that the form did infact come from Hung Fut.How it came from Hung Fut to Black Tiger i need to ask him the next time we speak.He is in Hong Kong so i usually speak to him once or twice a week.
My sifu shared a school with a Hung Fut sifu in New York when he came to the US from Hong Kong.I can’t remember the name now but i’ve spoken with Devilstaff and his sifu and sigung both remember my sifu from his time there.
But Black Tiger is a family of Shaolin styles so it could’ve been one of the styles added to Black Tiger?
was your Sifu’s friend/benefactor Sifu Leung Kai? I only know of him by name as well and a few pictures I have seen. I haven’t seen black tiger that I can remember so I can’t comment on the similarities. There are also several branches of hung fut. For example students of Sifu Hung Gum Pui and Sifu Hung Shiu Sum forms are different than the ones that students of Sifu Tai Yim learn, and both of those sets of students have forms that are different from the other branches. The techniques are by and large the same or similar, mainly the forms and flavors are a little different. Sifu Hung Gum Pui was also in NY for a little while I believe, one of his students Sifu Jai has been operating a club there for a while. I have not learned many forms, and my knowledge is limited. Some of what we are learning concerning history and the likes is still being refined as my Sifu continues to travel and research them. I’ll try to keep my eyes and ears open if I learn of any crossing with black tiger style, by the way, how old or what generation is black tiger style now?
The names Leung Kai and Jai are the two names i remember hearing my sifu talk about.He also knows your sifu too though.
I’d be lying if i said i knew the exact time ,but Black Tiger was taught at the Shaolin temple.My Sigung Grandmaster Wong Cheung learned it from Fung Ping-Wai a Shaolin Monk that had returned to a worldly life and was living in Hong Kong.I know Black Tiger is much older than Hung Fut. Black Tiger and Hung Gar are sister styles.Also like i said Black Tiger is a family of Shaolin styles so much could’ve been added at anytime.I know Grandmaster Wong Cheung added forms to Black Tiger ,but the forms he added were forms that he himself created.
In Hung Fut I see natural similarities and techniques from Hung Ga since it is part of the Hung Fut style. However I also see a strong similarity to Choy Lay Fut. The Hung Fut salutation and the Choy Lay Fut salutation are nearly identical other then spreading/non spreading the fingers at the end of the overhead connecting block or “eagle wings” as I call it. In addition the flavors seem very similar, at least from Hung Sing branch. I wonder if anyone else notices strong similarities in other southern styles that have more or less developed independent of each other.
Originally posted by brothernumber9 In Hung Fut I see natural similarities and techniques from Hung Ga since it is part of the Hung Fut style. However I also see a strong similarity to Choy Lay Fut. The Hung Fut salutation and the Choy Lay Fut salutation are nearly identical other then spreading/non spreading the fingers at the end of the overhead connecting block or “eagle wings” as I call it. In addition the flavors seem very similar, at least from Hung Sing branch. I wonder if anyone else notices strong similarities in other southern styles that have more or less developed independent of each other.
Well we have alot of forms that have Choy Lay Fut flavor.Infact i always say that Black Tiger looks more like Choy Lay Fut to me than it does Hung Gar.But then again that’s only in a few forms.We have alot of techniques similar to Wing Chun,Eagle Claw and even Bak Mei.I guess that comes from the different styles that make up Black Tiger.
how far back can you trace your black tiger lineage? Is the black tiger you study the same as the Shaolin West school?, I’ve only seen thier web site and they mention they teach black tiger within the curriculum. Are there any black tiger sites in english that you can recommend with info or pics and such? Its seems the origins of Hung Fut and Black Tiger could potentially cross paths somewhere. Although you said you believe black tiger is much older, I think the two systems may be relatively close in age. The founder of Hung fut was named Lee Jo Fun who at some time in his life was a monk named Wun Lei also from Fukien temple. I am really interested to see what Black Tiger forms look like, and to gauge the similarities and differences from what I have learned. I 'll ask my sifu what he knows of Bak Fu Pai and relations to Hung Fut.
You could be right about the two being close to the same age.I’ll have to ask my sifu to be 100% sure,but here’s some info i got from someone else.Soo Hak Fu was a Tiger Claw Master and one of the “Ten Tigers Of Canton” he created Black Tiger Style (Hak Fu Moon) He lived during the latter part of the Qing Dynasty.The Qing Dynasty lasted from (1644 - 1911).
No my lineage is not the same as Shaolin West,Shantung Black Tiger or Fu Jow Pai’s.Shaolin West and Fu Jow Pai trace their Black Tiger back to an Unkown Monk ,and that’s as far as they go that i know of. Although we do have an Unknown monk in our lineage. We are still able to trace it back directly to the founder Soo (Su) Hak Fu.It’s not that the monk was really unkown his name has been lost over time.Our Black Tiger also looks nothing like the other Black Tiger styles.I know that our Black Tiger has turned up in alot of Hung Gar lineages though. And like i stated before Wong Fei Hung learned our lineage of Black Tiger,but i can not give you a time frame until i speak with my sifu or sisuk and find out.
Right now there is no english website i 'm working on one ,but i’ve been very busy with my new job.The Black Tiger website in my signature is going to have an english link very soon.We are also in the process of putting up video that can be downloaded off that website also.I’m just trying to decide what forms and training drills we are going to put up on the site. That is the Hong Kong school of my sigung Grandmaster Wong Cheung.
thanks for the info, you may have already seen our schools site at kunfu1.com, I’m the white guy at the top of the asstistant instructor page doing a crane pose. We don’t have any videos on our site, the only video I have on any computer is of a lion dance several years ago, a small clip in real audio, poor sound and quality because it was when real audio first came out. You won’t see me in any of the gallery pics cuz i’m usually in a lion head and I haven’t been to any tournaments since 2001. I’ll see my Sifu tonight so I’ll ask him if he has ever seen or experienced bak fu pai from your lineage. I’ll post back if I learn anything. by the way, where is your Sifu from, is he from HK? perhaps your Sifu and my Sifu know some of the same people.
At the risk of sounding silly I would like to know which version .
No seriouslly. LIke the confusion with jik bo I have also seen more than one way of doing 9 step.
Probably a progression of sorts but the moves are not only added to in the 2nd version but there are definiely replacement moves in the 2nd version for moves that appearred in the 1st version.
Now you know why we never talk about our sets in public heh heh…no one can understand which sets we are talking about…funnily enough this workss the same for CLF and LY as well LOL.
<<I study Chan Family Choy Lee Fut under Master Ng Fu Hang, the great-great-grandson of the founder, Chan Heung Gung. Mr. Ben Gash has already described the art nicely.>>dutch
Hi dutch,
I met your master Ng Fu Hang and his mother in LA many years ago. Does he still teach CLF in LA?
Yes, he still teaches, but not at his home in China Town - L.A.. He now has a school in Arcadia, Ca.. At www.choyleefut.us you can find a map to the school (just follow the links). I personal wished he still taught at his home…I enjoyed my time there.
(sound of two hands clapping) Agreed.