Many Southern styles trace their lineage to the Fujian Shaolin Temple. One can see similarities between many of these styles. Hung Gar and Choy Lay Fut are two seperate styles but I think most would agree that they share many similarities. Many have even called them sister styles. I have never seen Fut Gar nor read/heard much commentary on it’s relation to Hung Gar (aside from how it combined with it to form Hung Fut) so it’s difficult for me to discuss how it fits in. Anyone have commentary on this? Many believe it to be one of Choy Lay Fut’s roots if I’m not mistaken. One can surmise that the similarities between these styles comes from the Southern Shaolin root. The problem that arises from this conclusion is how to explain Bak Mei and Fujianese arts that also have roots at the temple. Bak Mei has many similarities to other Hakka arts such as Lung Ying, Southern Mantis, etc. Personally, I believe that Hakka arts and Fujianese arts look closer to each other then they do to the other Southern Shaolin arts that I mentioned. Perhaps the explanation for this is that the other Southern Shaolin arts come from Preist Jee Sim while the Hakka and Fujianese arts have an origin elsewhere in the temple. Then again, is it just Bak Mei that has a Shaolin lineage or do the other Hakka arts have it too? If the other Hakka arts don’t, how do you explain their place in this?
Any thoughts on this theory folks?
Oh, and it is not my intention to offend anyone. I’m just sharing my thoughts. I could be completely wrong.
hey Xia,
yeah in Hung Sing CLF under the Jeong Yim branch our fut ga came from Monk Ching Cho. and MonK Ching Cho was connected to the Fujian Shaolin Temple. as it goes…
However, when i was in fut san during the performances on stage i commented on one performers performance, and asked what CLF school was he from? I was told that it wasn’t CLF but Fut Gar…
I was completely shocked because i saw some many similarities in that fut gar i was watching, I could’ve sworn it was CLF.
peace.
I see a relationship in Fut Ga to Tibetan White Crane, so I wonder where that connection lies. Hung-Ga, pre-WFH was played alot smaller, smaller horse,short bridge, short strikes, duan-ging-short power. The opening sections of the “Pillar forms”, most noticable in Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen show this. After WFH’s exchange with Wong Yun-Lum, of Hop-Ga, you see the introduction of the long arm technique. I play Hung-Ga,as well as the Hakka Kuen, and I constantly see these relationships.
Fut Ga
Fut Ga is related to Wing Chun, it shares many similariteis to some qualities in Hakka arts but also contains more techniques and mid range application?? that is what I always thought. Like Fut Ga was a more complete, rounded Wing Chun.
For Sifu Frank, in Hong Kong many Bak Hsing schools call their gung fu “fut ga” My Sigung called his style Bak Hsing Fut Gar at his school in Vancouver. Sifu expalined that when ever some asked Tam Sam what style he did he said “Fut Ga, Buddha Style,” I’ve seen two or three schools besides mine that describe their Bak Hsing as Fut Ga.
i saw a old video from the 60’s of SF chinatown kung fu performance.
i saw my sifu when he was young performing fut gar that he learned from lee keung.
i thought it was choy lee fut.
my sifu also said that CLF back in the day looked a lot like hong ga.
he also learned a village version of hong ga under ma sik. shorter bridge, a lot of angry tiger movements. ma sik used to be a bouncer for a gambling parlor. heard he killed a guy during a fight with a gwa choi to his head.
Good responses.
Anyone see much of or have experience with Fujianese styles like Five Ancestors fist or White Crane to see how they fit into this?
uhhh…they look the same?
honestly the most “unique” of the chinese MA styles, and by unique i mean has a unique way of moving and fighting principle, as well as focus, are the tibetan styles,
Fut Ga
this is a version of the Bak Hsing Sup jee Kuen, that i found labeled as “Fut Gar” on youtube
This sifu is actually a third generation master under Tam Sam
[QUOTE=Satori Science;746359]this is a version of the Bak Hsing Sup jee Kuen, that i found labeled as “Fut Gar” on youtube
This sifu is actually a third generation master under Tam Sam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YRkeoqDDPc[/QUOTE]
Holy crap, that looks completely different than the CLF I’m used to seeing. Does most Buk Sing look like this? I can definitely see a huge difference here . . . . .
I see a relationship in Fut Ga to Tibetan White Crane, so I wonder where that connection lies
.
TenTigers,
Sorry mind to elaborate further???
Thanks
Regards,
Luca
It just looks like CLF, yes its played a bit different and combinations might be different from what you are used to seeing but all I see is CLF. Actually I see a lot of the same stuff we do just with a different interpretation.
What I was talking about was the interpretation and focus of the movements. While it’s obvious that he’s using bin jing and everything that makes CLF what it is, the interpretation like you said is different, and the emphasis is different too.
Thanks again for post that.
Right but there is no huge difference. If you even look throughout the Lee Koon Hung line you can see differences but that is just kung fu. If you watch enough buk sing you can definately see that Sifu (LKH) had some buk sing influences. Just notice all of our punches are chop choy’s, we never what would be considered a typical punch with a closed or clenched fist.
CLF Nole is right but at the same time, there is clearly a different emphasis in the way the movemnts are played, as well as the type and the style of sequencing in traditional Bak Hsing forms. And in the Case of Master Wai on that video he doing excellent Bak Hsing. The movemtns are the similar definately, and there are influences back and forth. I do agree that there is only one CLF really, this is what Grandmaster Lung Jee always taught my sifu.
That said, there is a disitnct differance in how we release our gwa-sow-chop from any other style.
Every Master adds on to their stlye. Tam Sam our Sijo was a very gifted fighter and modififed his CLF tirelessly. We play our forms diferrently based on the modifications that Tam Sijo made.
I think every branch and lineage has a different emphasis and each branch and line have some unique things that they do. I would also guess if we got together and went over different things they wouldn’t be as different and unique as we might think.
My point was to look at that video and say “wow it is so different from what I have seen” is a bit extreme and something someone who hasn’t been exposed to much CLF might say.
I think it’s pure CLF.
For example, when I see Sifu Vince or Dave Lacey sparring or drilling is the closest I’ve seen to Sifu Chen Yong Fa doing the same. I guess not many will agree, but if you set your perception to stare at differences you will see only differences.
My 2 cents -
I see a huge differance to “Southern Siu Lum” arts, and arts that are Hakka. When i say differance, im not refering to just physical hand movements. What i mean are the entire use of the Body and Jing are totaly differant beasts. Differant “Engines” as a friend of mine “Coined”. The use of breath as well as the use of the Spine are completly differant.
Now looking at Fut Gar, there is absolulty no relation to Wing Chun other than they are both chinese in origin. Im part of a research institute(AWCKRI) that is currently tracing the roots of Wing Chun to Weng Chun County White Crane. 2 branchs, in particular of White crane, We believe currently, are involved, as well as an internal Snake boxing system from Emie Mountain. Plus some components from another 4th system, as well as the application methods being derived from another totaly differant 5th source.
Of cource when one examines modern WCK, such as H.K branch they wont see as strong of traditional kung fu roots, that White crane has. BUt when you look at older branchs of WCK such as Cho Gar, Yuen Kay Shan, or Kulo village, the White Crane is obvious. As well as traditional Kung Fu training methods.
Ive always wondered where and what White Crane came from. And have no clue, as my research currently doesnt include tracing White Cranes roots. I have always seen a stronger connection to Southern Mantis, and other Hakka arts to White Crane, than most traditional southern Siulum.
Oral tradition of Weng Chun county (~Might~) point to 18 Lohan Fists as the base. With Siu Lum Ng Ying Sau, Bok Hok being used as the Flavor. How possible this could be, i wouldnt pretend to know. I have never seen 18 Lohan fists , other than material in a book, which is very limited.
Many suggest WCK comes from Hung Gar or other “Chi Shim” arts, but that couldnt be from the truth, based on mechanics, Jing Manefestation, Ancestral methods of organizing material, Kuen Kuit, Application, Hand structures, training methods, concepts, principles, which all substantiate Oral tradition as well as the simple fact that WCK isnt a “Kiu Sau” type art, and is a “Conceptual/Jing based Art” (Just like Weng Chun County White Crane).
B sez
Of cource when one examines modern WCK, such as H.K branch they wont see as strong of traditional kung fu roots, that White crane has. BUt when you look at older branchs of WCK such as Cho Gar, Yuen Kay Shan, or Kulo village, the White Crane is obvious. As well as traditional Kung Fu training methods.
If by HK branch you mean Ip man wing chun—you seem to be making IMO some
unwarranted assumptions. The roots of IM WC also go to the past through Leung Jan.
Joy chaudhuri
a while back in another thread, I had brought up, in one of my many useless posts, That I suspect there are underlying influences and similarites in “southern” kung fu styles that particularly made their way into and out of HK. For lack of a better way to coin it “HK Southern” kung fu styes.
There are glaring similarities in “southern long” styles, like Choy Lay Fut, Hung Fut, Jow Ga, Hung Ga, Mok Ga, Hark Fu Mun/Fu Jow Pai, and others, PARTICULARLY from lineages within or that made their way from Hong Kong.
Anyone else think so too? Or no?