This forum has been sucking a bit lately, and as such the numbers of browsers and posters has dropped.
So how about some serious discussion of southern styles, techniques, history and tradition without resorting to name calling or, at the other extreme, excessive nerdyness 
Iâll start.
My style is Choy Li Fut, as southern Shaolin style from Canton which was created in the 1830s by fusing Fut Gar, Li Gar, and the Northern Shaolin style taught by Choy Fook. Hence the name. Choy Li Fut is known for its torquing waist movements, swinging arm techniques and northern influenced footwork. I love the whipping, torquing power of CLF techniques, as they always feel fast and powerful. Iâve been fortunate enough to have studied several lineages of Choy Li Fut. Iâve experienced Chan Hung Sing, Jeong Hung Sing, Bak Sing Fut Gar, Lee Hin and even an obscure Malay lineage (my first CLF style).
The weapons Iâve studied in CLF are short staff, double ended staff, single ended staff, sword, broadsword,Pu Dao,Kwan Dao,Butterfly knives and sai (from the Malay lineage).
Training methods include wallbags, dummyâs,drills, 2 man forms, sticky hands and sparring.
Good idea.
So what lineage are you studying now? Iâm curious. 
Sorry, I was at work and I had to cut it short.
Chan Hung Sing is the line from the founder Chan Heung. It is probably the most balanced of the lineages (it has the most sets as well), offering a good mixture of long and short techniqes, all with the torqueing waist movement.
Jeong Hung Sing is the line form Jeong Yim, one of Chan Heungâs top students. Jeong Hung Sing places heavy emphasis on the generation of longarm power. Huge gwa choys and sow choys are characterictic of Jeong Hung Sing .
Bak Sing Fut Gar is the result of a friendship between CLF master Tam Sam and Northern Shaolin master Kuo Yu Cheong. Bak Sing Fut Gar has a far more northern flavour (Imagine a Hung gar guy trying to do Hongquan and youâll have an idea of the flavour) than the other lines. There is a great deal of variation between lineages within the Bak Sing line, with greater and lesser degrees of northern influence. Some even teach Northern Shaolin beside it. Because of the northern influence, and Tam Samâs fighting theories, Bak Sing Fut Gar forms are more linear, with aggressive, penetrating combinations, often using the running horse stance to allow rapid footwork changes.
Lee Hin Choy Li Fut originates from Toisan County in Canton, where it was taught by the second Generation master Lee Hin. Lee Hin CLF is sometimes referred to as âshorthandâ CLF, although this is misleading. The power generation is the same as in all CLF, but the expression is often shorter (especially when compared to Jeong Hung Sing).
I know very little about the Malay CLF that I know. The Teacher that my Sifu learned it from was one of these guys whoâd only acknowledge the Sifu he was a disciple of, and rarely mentioned Sifuâs heâd learned other styles (such as CLF) from. It has a much more southern shaolin feel than the other lineages, with a greater incidence of 5 animals techniques.
So anyaway, thatâs me and my style. Feel free to comment, ask questions or give your own perspective. Iâd also love to hear about your styles.
Mostly Chan Hung Sing at the moment.
In this spirit, allow me to contribute these clips of okinawan karate. Okinawan Karate is the fusion of Okinawanâs âTeâ (bare fist fighting) and Fujian Crane style.
http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/023/eng/011/001/index.html
Video curtesy of Okinawan perfectural gov. The site isnât finish yet, but youâll see Goju ryuâs Sanchin kata as done by real Goju masters.
wm
My style is Shaolin Black Tiger it was created by Soo Hak Fu one of the âTen Tigers of Cantonâ.My sifu is C.Kuen Woo (Fred Woo) he learned directly from Grandmaster Wong Cheung the styles fourth Grandmaster.
Black Tiger is a family of Shaolin styles so we have a mixture of Northern and Southern styles within Black Tiger.Black Tiger is known for itâs brutal conditioning drills and itâs various different dummies.The most famous being the â9 Armed Grinder Dummyâ.Like itâs sister style Hung Gar.Black Tiger also has the deep rooted stances and iron hard arms.We also have a Iron Wire or Iron Thread set in Black Tiger.The first three forms taught in Black Tiger are dummy forms although the first form doesânt use a dummy.You then learn a longrange form Night Tiger followed by the first of three Chin Na forms.Then comes the One Armed form.Once you learn the One armed form you can no longer spar using both arms.From that point on you must spar with that one arm.If the person you are sparring has not learned the form then they can use both arms and legs against you.
The one armed form is done using your weak arm.Meaning that if you are right handed then youâd use your left arm to learn the form.It was created that if you lost your strong arm in battle.Then you could still be able to defeat your opponent with your other arm.
jeff:)
Am not a southern-style artist, although I wish I was.
Always had love for da south side;)
Originally posted by jmd161
[B]Then comes the One Armed form.Once you learn the One armed form you can no longer spar using both arms.From that point on you must spar with that one arm.If the person you are sparring has not learned the form then they can use both arms and legs against you.
The one armed form is done using your weak arm.Meaning that if you are right handed then youâd use your left arm to learn the form.It was created that if you lost your strong arm in battle.Then you could still be able to defeat your opponent with your other arm.
jeff:) [/B]
Hey Jmd,
When you do this one-arm training, do you stop training the stronger arm?
thanks
wm
Hi,
I study Chan Family Choy Lee Fut under Master Ng Fu Hang, the great-great-grandson of the founder, Chan Heung Gung. Mr. Ben Gash has already described the art nicely.
Sincerely,
My roots are in the White Eyebrow system,my lineage comes from
Dr.YQ Wongâs branch.
Chang Beng Fat,Ng Nam King And Chen Dor were his teachers respectfully.
I have dabbled in Wing Chun under Duncan Leung and
Leung Ting/Emin Boztepe.
Also BJJ and Arnis.
I for one have seen this forum gone to hell from bickering between different schools of Bai Mei/Pak Mei/Bak Mei where people(not all) just donât want to share conversation and fellowship because of politics,many are turned off and just donât want to discuss these and other systems because of some belligerent members on this forum,when some try to inquire about the different applications they are shut down by the high and mighty that only show their a$$ buy claiming to hold the keys to the doors of the only way,by doing this they not only show their lack of understanding of the base art and system but show their weakness,if they in fact hold the real key to this system(and others) and boast on the secrets only that they know a certain amount of maturity should go hand in hand with this knowledge.
There has over the years been some good exchange between
schools on this forum,only to be shut down by the so called keepers of the flame,if they really belive that they hold the secrets
of this system and they are the only ones privy to this information
they are sadly mistaken,for anyone that has devoted blood ,sweat and tears to this long and honorable life long endeavor should know that a sharing of knowledge between brothers will do no harm,for we know that in order to keep our system pure and not see our treasure be watered down we must keep a quality control but by the same token we know that the sharing of knowledge between members of this forum will and CANNOT water down our art,I no longer worry about others knowing about certian aspects of my system,although I do not claim to be any expert in my system there should ALWAYS be those keepers of the flame that make sure that people that make a habit of bad judgement should never be allowed to have a part in the higher learning,call it whatever your Godâs will people of that nature nine times out of ten will never make it past the lower levels,so it goes to show that these systems are no longer the atom bombs that they once were and those that cling
to that illusion only show their lack of understanding.
I am no longer worried about sharing information with my brother schools,I have no fear that certain secrets of my system will be stolen by other systems and schools because I know for a fact that they cannot comprehend the full scope,even if they did my only wish is they would give credit where credit is due for the elders that have passed these treasures down to us.
My system is indeed a treasure as others and I am proud to have been a part of it as others here have been of theirs,but I cannot just sit back and see the bickering as progress,we know who we are,with the pride that comes from lineage from our founders it must be our duty to make sure that our art is not lost in time but at the same time our honor,our knowedge and our brotherhood
and those that came before us gives us a firm heart knowing that
those that earn it will be the true keepers of the flame.
I feel it is time to break the bonds of this silence
that has gripped this forum,I have seen many members(rant again) who are sorely missed by myself for one that put in positive input here only to leave or keep silent.
MMA have far surpassed us in some ways because of these simple
drawbacks,IMHO.
I applaude Ben Gash for bringing this to the front of the Southern forum and others that have given positive input into this very important thread,it has been long over due,I salute you Ben and others that will join in this nobel cause and hope that the ones who have left or no longer post will return.
Blue hair and Gday
Originally posted by WanderingMonk
[B]
Hey Jmd,
When you do this one-arm training, do you stop training the stronger arm?
thanks
wm [/B]
wm,
No we donât stop training the stronger arm.We just are not allowed to spar with the arm anymore.It helps to make you more balanced with arm strength.It really help because youâre forced to put more work in with the weaker arm.
jeff:)
Ummm jeff⌠if you never spar again with your stronger arm, wouldnât that in time create an imbalance and also limit your sparring?
Are you saying that, once you reach a certain level in Black Tiger you only ever spar one handed?
Well yes!
Are you saying that, once you reach a certain level in Black Tiger you only ever spar one handed?
Well Fu-Pau,
You can spar on your own with someone using both arms,but if you spar in the school against another Black Tiger brother itâs done with one arm.Meaning when itâs being judged by sifu itâs done with one arm,but we spar on our own using both arms and legs.
Itâs supposed to be one arm from then on out though.
I donât know if it creates an imbalance ,but you learn to adjust to do just about everything with the one arm.But sifu always fights us with one arm,and believe me he has no problem or limit to his attacks.
jeff:)
I would think that eventually the weak arm woul become stronger (ti use your terminology) but, just as much, the originally strong arm would become the weak one. Do you swap back at some point or what?
This is a truly bizarre practice, I must say.
Re: Well yes!
Originally posted by jmd161
Itâs supposed to be one arm from then on out though.
Jeff,
Thatâs interesting. what is the long term rationale or principle behind that?
I can understand the concept of sparring one handed to sharpen your awareness and sensitivity. I do it often for practice.
But surely once you forgo sparring with both hands, rather than âstrengthening your weaker armâ (for a time when your stronger arm may be neutralised), you are simply putting yourself at that disadvantage for no reason, and thereby neglecting training with both hands which takes different skill and co-ordination.
cheers Fu-Pau
What happens with 2 handed techniques?
Re: Re: Well yes!
Originally posted by Fu-Pau
[B]
Jeff,
Thatâs interesting. what is the long term rationale or principle behind that?
I can understand the concept of sparring one handed to sharpen your awareness and sensitivity. I do it often for practice.
But surely once you forgo sparring with both hands, rather than âstrengthening your weaker armâ (for a time when your stronger arm may be neutralised), you are simply putting yourself at that disadvantage for no reason, and thereby neglecting training with both hands which takes different skill and co-ordination.
cheers Fu-Pau
[/B]
Well i think people are getting the wrong idea about the one armed fighting.It works for making you more balanced with your attacks.You spend your whole life using one arm/hand more than the other so i doubt using your weaker arm to spar is going to make your strong arm weak.It helps alot with you being able to use (in my case my left arm) your weak arm better.Many ppl never develope the use of their weak arm because they will only use the arm that they are comfortable with in practice.
Well i haveânt been doing black tiger long enough to notice a problem with this train of thought.My sifu on the other hand has spent 43 yrs in black tiger and he fights very well with one or two arms.What i notice is my sifu seems to not have a weak arm.Infact i canât really tell if heâs right or left handed.When we spar we donât wear gloves or pads ,and my sifu 95% of the time fights against even full out attacks with only one arm.
Itâs funny because it reminds me of those old school kung fu movies where you see the guy using one arm to play with and defeat their opponent.Iâve gone after my sifu with major combos only to have him block and strike me with only one arm with ease.Most of the time my sifu places one arm at his side or behind his back and heâs able to defeat us all with ease.But then again my sifu was the best fighter in the Black Tiger Clan.He only lost once to his sihing when he was like 14 or 16 yrs old.After that he never lost another fight he even defeated three at one time i recently found out from a Sidai of his in Hong Kong.
The idea is if you can defeat an opponent with one arm then two makes it that much easier.Grandmaster Wong Cheung created this form himself mainly because he had a student with one arm that he taught.
jeff
Originally posted by Serpent
[B]I would think that eventually the weak arm woul become stronger (ti use your terminology) but, just as much, the originally strong arm would become the weak one. Do you swap back at some point or what?
This is a truly bizarre practice, I must say. [/B]
Well i know that Hung Fut also has a one armed form so itâs not unique to Black Tiger.Infact we also share Hung Fut"s Wind Demon staff so maybe there was a swap of knowledge there?
To my knowledge we donât swap back itâs one armed sparring from then on out,but like i said we do spar on our own with two hands when weâre sparring on our own.it makes you a better fighter in my mind because you have to think more and a hell of alot quicker.There is no room for mistakes or wasted moves when youâre fighting with one arm and the other person is using both arms.
What happens with 2 handed techniques?
Well they are still there we donât disregard anything in order to be one handed.I think itâs great for making you use your weaker hand more and thus not being one sided in combat.
jeff:)
though another style may have a âwind devil staffâ or âmad devil staffâ form, it is not the same as in hung fut. The hung fut mad devil staff form is taught only to one individual of each generation excluding the 6th generation. The form has been performed in public but is always modified when performed in public. Although it is not entirely impossible that someone outside the hung fut lineage could have learned/stole/secretly watched the form it is not likely in the least. however, since it had been performed a number of times publicly by both Sijo Hung Jiu Shing and Sigung Hung Yu Chung, if someone did learn it by watching, then the techniques would still be actual techniques from the form as they learned it.
in addition to my previous post, after thinking, there is one avenue that could have resulted in an exchange between black tiger and hung fut. A monk named loy yen who was believed to reside in a temple called the âpurple bambooâ temple was the one who taught or helped developed the form to/with the 6th generation master Hung Jiu Shing. Outside of this encounter, little or nothing is known of Loy Yen. So a possibility exists at least conceivably that he could have taught another or even learned black tiger and included it.