I was having this debate recently:
We can redily see the southern and northern influence of CLF in its movements and concepts. Lee Yau San taught Lee Gar, a southern system. The other teachers taught Fut Gar, also southern systems. So where did the Northern influence come from.
BTW< dont flame me here. 
North and South of Choy Lee Fut
This is just my input to this post . Choy Li Fut is is made up of 2 styles the northern style and southern style . The Northern Style are the high spinning kicks , and the southern styles are basically the hand techniques . But it â s true , one of the monk which were from the south , was infact a fut gar practitioner . I read some place , that it was actually Sil Lum Fut Ga
( Shaolin Buddhist Family Fist ) . It was either Monk Choy Fook or Li Yau San , who was already a Sil Lum Fut Ga practitioner
, before being involved with the development of Choy Li Fut . That â s what made the Choy Li Fut system , a unique self defense system to learn and practice.
Take Care ,
Sil Lum Kuen
Both Choy Fook and Lay Yau San were supposed to have been from the northern Shaolin Temple and thus the northern influence.
Peace.
north & south
Southern Kung Fu originally came from the north. But it appears that the northern masters didnât teach the southerners properly (or systematically to be more precise).
For example a piq gua sifu may show a southerner the large arm movement. However, because the southeners didnât learn the system from the basic, the applications of these movements in Southern systems we totally misrepresented. Herein lies the development of Choy Lay Fut, Hung Ga, Pak Hok Pai an others with âlarge arm movementsâ.
In other way, certain northern concepts have evolved into full systems in the south which goes a long way to explain why there is such a large disparity in theory between shorthand and longhand styles.
Whereas, northern systems are fully self contained as there is no distinction in theory between dealing with situations in the short, medium and long range.
Why is northen systems superior. If any of you know Quantum mechanics like I do, physicist have strived to derive the GUT (Grand Unified Theory) which explains the 4 interactions in the universe -which would mean that the theory would be scale indifferent. As it is, quantum physics work at a very small scale. On a larger scale you have to explain physical interactions have to be explained in Classical Newtonian Physics. On a macro scale - one would have to apply Reletivistic Theory developed by Albert Einstein.
What this example goes to show is that physist donât have a complete understanding of the basic interactions. There are a lot of holes in it - trust me Iâve done the maths.
Now relate back to the Southern styles youâve learned. Full of holes compared to the unified systems of the North.
But then again, without the northerners, there probably wonât be any southern kung Fu and those poor peasants of old would have no way of protecting themselves.
I hope this answers your questions and tell you sifu that. In my experience southern martial arts sifu are very knowledgeable in traditions but much they can learn about fighting applications.
Well, thatâs my 2 cents worth. Hope you all have learned something and shed new light on the material that youâre training in.
Maximus Materialize!
It is not just the kicks, the footwork is also from the North. Chan Heung made CLF footwork more mobile the most of the contemporary Southern styles of the time. However, the stances are from the South as can be seen in the deem ma stance (bow & arrow). In the northern version of the stance the Knee and foot of the front leg point to the font and in the southern version the knee and foot are turned inwards.
By the way Ego Extrodinaire what a load of crap.
Saying is not boasting at all
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZâŚhuh
Oh sorry, fell asleep during the Physics lecture.
Then I woke upâŚperhaps you should also. Quite funny really. BTW are you trying out your new material for your amateur stand up debut?
CLFNole:
Yes I have heard that. But most sources refer to their styles collectively as Fut Gar. That is the sticking point. Fut Gar being Southern in a strict sense. Although I have heard my sifu refer to Sil Lum techniques as Fut Gar. So maybe it is a generalization that they use here, to refer to Northern Shaolin as Fut GarâŚor as coming from the monks.
Bak Sing CLF
I know hardly anything about CLF⌠but I do know that there is a style, Bak Sing CLF which came into being through the exchange of techniques between Tan Sam, a CLF master, and Ku Yu Cheong, a master of Northern Shaolin (Bak Sil Lum) when the latter was teaching in Canton⌠supposedly the two fought and drew, and decided to exchange some of their top students. I have seen Bak Sing CLF and it has a lot of the same kicking techniques that we do in Northern Shaolin, I have also seen Bak Sing CLF schools that practice some of our Northern Shaolin formsâŚ
North and South of Choy Lee Fut
I just wanted to add to this topic . The Shaolin Monk Choy Fook , came from the North Branch of the Shaolin Monestry . Besides the high spinning kicks , there were also long range hand techniques .
Monk Li Yau San came from the Southern Branch of the Shaolin Monestry , where palm strikes , different types of swinging
punches were being used . And short range hand techniques , stomping kicks , low and medium high kicks . The southern shaolin did have their own long range hand techniques . The palm strikes are from the fut ga kung fu system .
The other system Hung Gar or Ga depending on how the terms is being used . I get confused about these chinese terms , myself so excuse me . Anyway , Hung Gar is also known as the Tiger & Crane system of kung fu . The hand techniques in Hung Gar are very similiar to the hand techniques of Choy Li Fut Kung Fu .
These styles also have the 5 animal techniques , but used in a different way .
Hung Gar also does have long range hand techniques . Hung Gar is also made famous by Wong Fei Hung . And the Choy Li Fut style , is basically Fong Sai Yuk . Because , people we all need to do our own research , on these unique kung fu styles.
Anyway , people take care .
There is already Northern and Southern Shaolin . So there is no way that southern kung fu came from the north . But they did adapted a lot from each other . Because , how did other southern styles like Wing Chun , bak mei , and Hung Gar evolve ?
Sil Lum Kuen
Rubbish - Fong Sai Yuk with CLF ! Not True.
CLF founded in 1836, Fong sai yuk was well and truely dead then!
Choy gar kicking, Lee gar Shorter Hand techniques
Fut gar Lohan long range movements.
Fut Gar
I think that there are several common misconceptions about the history of Choy Lay(Lee,Li) Fut etc.
1)The first misconception is that the Fut, Choy and Lee in Choy Lee Fut refer to Lee Gar,Fut Gar and Choy Gar, 3 of the 5 main family styles in Southern China. (the other 2 being Mok and Hung)
Iâve heard this argument before from people in my own school. This just canât be correct. First of all, these styles look very different than Choy Lee Fut. True, Chan Heungs main teachers surnames were Lee and Choy, but these names are very common in China. It does not mean that they studied Lee Gar or Choy Gar. Fut is the Chinese word for Buddha..it is a shot out to the Shaolin Temple where both Lee Yau San and Choy Fookâs MA were originally derived from.
- Secondly, there is a misconception about Chan Heung having a 3rd teacher called âthe Green Grass Monk.â
This is not based on historical evidence but on a novel that was written about Hung Sing Choy Lay Fut. Chan Heung did have a 3rd teacherâŚactually it was his first teacherâŚhis uncle Chan Yuen WooâŚwho studied Hung Gar briefly and realized his nephews prodigious martial arts talentâŚpassing him along to his two later teachers.
If anyone would care dispute/comment on either of these points Iâm openâŚ
[This message was edited by Fu-Pow on 04-20-01 at 11:25 AM.]
just trying my new symbol
COOL!!
COOOL!!
SDFSD
Fu-Pow
âIf you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, youâd better train every part of your bodyâ - Bruce Lee
small correction on five families
Fut gar generally isnât referred as one of the five family systems.
Hung, Choy, Mok, Li and Lau
^^^
No comments on the rest of the topic.
Cheers,
J
Great debate, is there a place where I can learn more
This is a great discussion regarding the origins of CLF. As a newbie to CLF, I was wondering if there were any reliable sources one can use to research into the history further.
Thanks
Mike C.
Yeah.
I agree with Fu-pow.
I wonder where the whole choy gar, lee gar, fut gar misconception got started. Some guy even wrote it on his website about CLF and didnât even notice when I e-mailed him about it.
Mike
Itâs hard to find reliable sources about CLF. Not like thereâs people who spread false information. Itâs just that thereâs so many different versions of the CLF history and they all tell things differently. Especially this thing about Chan Heungs teachers and what they taught to him.
I guess itâs just because this information has been passed on orally and it naturally changes as the time goes by. Some parts are forgotten and some parts told a bit differently.
IââŹâ˘ve heard of the Chan Heung Hung Gar connection before. I mention this because at our school here in the UK we practice the Gung Ji Fook Fu Sern form of Hung Gar. I have also read that in some of the literature coming from Master Chen Yon FaââŹâ˘s school in Australia stating that the Gung Ji Fook Fu Sern form has always been part of the CLF curriculum.
PS wasnââŹâ˘t the greengrass monk Jeung YimââŹâ˘s (Jeung Hung Sing) second teacher.
Saying is not boasting at all
J
I guess you are right about the 5 southern families. Where does Fut Gar fit in there thenâŚ
Fu-Pow
âIf you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, youâd better train every part of your bodyâ - Bruce Lee
Fut Gar and Five Southern Familys
Fut Gar is a combination of all the southern Five familys.Fut gar has techniques from all the southern five family styles Hung Gar,Mok Gar,Choy Gar,Li Gar,Lau Gar,that is what the Suilam Fut ga kuen of sifu Harlan Lee and sifu Arthur lee says in some of there articles that i have read.
ive heard and read that bak mei is northern originally?
is this because of the hakka relationship?!
what do you think fire hawk?
ego,
i believe that there is no such thing as northern legs and southern hands, because being in the south you can still kick high, and visa versa. i think southerns found a way to attack so effectively the legs when kicking that they thought well we shouldnt have most of these kicks. but add them to forms to make them look pretty and to **** the northerners off!
you would be suprised to see how many kicks southern style use, its a matter of choice which one you can use best in a fight!
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