Hi does anyone know about snake & crane wing chun branch as descended from painted face kam…Yuen Kay San’s grandteacher? (hong kong and South China)
Thanks
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk
[QUOTE=Paul T England;968489]Hi does anyone know about snake & crane wing chun branch as descended from painted face kam…Yuen Kay San’s grandteacher? (hong kong and South China)
Thanks
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk[/QUOTE]
I believe someone else discussed that. But please share some info you have on it?
There is an article about “Snake Crane Wing Chun” in one of the New Martial Hero Magazine. As you stated, it comes from Dai Fa Min Kam Painted Face Kam. Kam taught Law Tiu Wen, who then taught his son. The Law family is now teaching in Hong Kong.
[QUOTE=JT1125;968605]There is an article about “Snake Crane Wing Chun” in one of the New Martial Hero Magazine. As you stated, it comes from Dai Fa Min Kam Painted Face Kam. Kam taught Law Tiu Wen, who then taught his son. The Law family is now teaching in Hong Kong.[/QUOTE]
Do you have any links sharing info on Snake Crane WC…also how is different than regular Yip Man WC…please share?
I thought that Yip man Wing chun had the influences of the crane (ie Bong sau, ding sau) and the snake (ie Huen sau, bill gee) …
from what i came to understand wing chun like okinawan krate was a variation largely of the whoping crane style:D
[QUOTE=Paul T England;968489]Hi does anyone know about snake & crane wing chun branch as descended from painted face kam…Yuen Kay San’s grandteacher? (hong kong and South China)
Thanks
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk[/QUOTE]
Paul,
Maybe you should check out more on the history of WCK. Dai Fa Min Kam was teacher of Fung Siu Ching who taught Yuen Kay Shan and others. He basically taught Weng Chun - the Shaolin based art with some cross pollination with Wing Chun. Weng Chun has sets Sam Bai Futm 6.5 pole, etc.
“Snake and Crane” is probably made up writer to sound myusterious. Don’t take it so literally.
WCK’s alleged Snake and Crane is possibly descended from Fujian White Crane, and Emei 12 Zhuang/Emei snake style…but most people’s idea is Shaw Brothers kung fu theatre.
Hi All,
Well from my investigation so far it looks like Dai Fa Min Kam line passed down to the Law family in Hong Kong. They call it Snake and Crane style but i am not sure how different that means it will be to standard wing chun. I hope to meet them in Hong Kong next year so I will let everyone know.
Paul
Hello Paul,
I would hope that your investigations take into consideration the many facets to studying a topic of this nature such as the fact that there is insider knowledge outside knowledge, Cultural, Ethnic, Historical and Hidden facets to be understood here.
Then you have to understand them and place them into their proper perspective. Not that everyone will agree on those things either but they can be useful in moving the conversation forward and helping keep your mind centered on what it is you are investigating.
Sometimes it is just easier to remove things like the word “standard” and just give the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise even if only from your own perspective.
http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2846
Something you may want to take a look at if you haven’t already.
[QUOTE=chusauli;969068]Paul,
Maybe you should check out more on the history of WCK. Dai Fa Min Kam was teacher of Fung Siu Ching who taught Yuen Kay Shan and others. He basically taught Weng Chun - the Shaolin based art with some cross pollination with Wing Chun. Weng Chun has sets Sam Bai Futm 6.5 pole, etc.
“Snake and Crane” is probably made up writer to sound myusterious. Don’t take it so literally.
WCK’s alleged Snake and Crane is possibly descended from Fujian White Crane, and Emei 12 Zhuang/Emei snake style…but most people’s idea is Shaw Brothers kung fu theatre.[/QUOTE]
Are there any books that specifiy or give details to Wing Chun originating from Fujian White Crane and Emei 12 Zhunag
About Snake Crane Wing Chun ( )
Yesterday, I surfed the web about Snake Crane Wing Chun ( ), and accidentally find this ‘The Snake Crane Wing Chun of Law Tiu Wen’ and ‘Snake & Crane Wing Chun’ in this Kung Fu Magazine forum and would like to share more information with you.
Snake Crane Wing Chun is a very low profile tributary of Wing Chun in the past 150 years because of the governing rules(Snake Crane Wing Chun Mun). It becomes a Law’s family oriented since the grandfather, Law Tiu Wen, of Law Chiu Wing learned the skills from ‘Sun Kam’, RedBoat. In this lineage, they mainly uphold and prolong the skills in his family instead of promoting. Now, Law Chiu Wing is over 80 years old and Qing dynasty was over in the early of last century. He has only three daughters without intention to succeed, and put it open to public four years ago.
All traditional forms of Snake Crane Wing Chun(SCWC) retaining a lot of imitations of Snake and Crane movement. Snake movement is on softness(sticking hand), while Crane movement is on hardness(power bridge). ‘Softness’, ‘Following’, ‘Imperturbability’ and ‘Concentration’ are the four keys to SCWC. All the forms in SCWC are hardware and need software to drive.
An interview had been made in March this year on the ‘Territory-wide Survey of Intagible Culture Heritage in Hong Kong’ conducted by the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology.
Below, there are six links to the slideshare.net relating to this lineage and some had been posted in Chinese in the ‘New Martial Hero Magazine’, Hong Kong before, now re-edited.
- The evolution of Wing Chun in last sixty years (in Hong Kong)
http://www.slideshare.net/ccwayne/the-evolution-of-wing-chun-in-last-sixty-years-in-hong-kong
- History - Snake Crane Wing Chun Mun
http://www.slideshare.net/ccwayne/history-snake-crane-wing-chun-mun
- Snake Crane Wing Chun : Three forms, Twin knives and One pole
http://www.slideshare.net/ccwayne/snake-crane-wing-chun-three-forms-twin-knives-and-one-pole
- The formation of Snake Crane Wing Chun Martial Arts Association 2009-01-08
- Conservation snake crane wing chun mun 20080707-1
http://www.slideshare.net/ccwayne/conservation-snake-crane-wing-chun-mun-200807071
- Territory-wide Survey of Intangible Culture Heritage in Hong Kong : Snake Crane Wing Chun ( )
http://www.slideshare.net/ccwayne/territorywide-survey-of-intangible-culture-heritage-in-hong-kong
Finally, please also take a moment to read and visit the following links. Then you will find more information about ‘Snake Crane Wing Chun’( )
A). Snake Crane Wing Chun facebook’s wall: (with video on SiuLimTau and ChumKiu)
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002994052797
B). Snake Crane Wing Chun’s page :
C). Website of Snake Crane Wing Chun Yung Kwok Wing Athletic Association :
==========================
chusauli,
Attached photos, you can see the old picture of Law Tiu Wen on the wall, and it shows in Chinese that he is the third generation of Snake Crane Wing Chun). (not as you said ‘Literally’ only)
Wayne
Great Post
[QUOTE=ccwayne;1149995]Yesterday, I surfed the web about Snake Crane Wing Chun ( ), and accidentally find this ‘The Snake Crane Wing Chun of Law Tiu Wen’ and ‘Snake & Crane Wing Chun’ in this Kung Fu Magazine forum and would like to share more information with you.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing your info with us all here, as it’s good to finally hear from people who still use these oldskool terms, let alone have a ‘Mun’ dedicated to the preservation of such methods from the Red Boats.
I just knew YKS lineage wasn’t the only group today with strong links to the old Opera. 
The Wing Chun Family Tree strengthens for Christmas 2011!!
Sifu Yung, thank you for sharing this information with us. It is wonderful to read of another lineage that preserves the methods and terminology as used on the Red Boats, as Spencer said.
RedBoat related to the Tai Ping Heavenly Knigdom
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1150012]Thanks for sharing your info with us all here, as it’s good to finally hear from people who still use these oldskool terms, let alone have a ‘Mun’ dedicated to the preservation of such methods from the Red Boats.
I just knew YKS lineage wasn’t the only group today with strong links to the old Opera.
The Wing Chun Family Tree strengthens for Christmas 2011!![/QUOTE]
Simply speaking, after the collapse of the Tai Ping Heavenly Kindom in the 1860s, a lot of rebellions, including RedBoat Opera, escape from persecution. Some were hiding, some were going to the South of China,(now Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore). That’s why there is BaungChung Wing Chun in Malaysia and Singapore. in between China and Thailand, it is very like between Wing Chun and nowadays Thai’s boxing. Fung Siu Ching was one of them, and he returned to GuangZhou meeting YuenKaiShan after the collape of Qing Dynasty. ‘Snake Crane Wing Chun’ is very closed to the YKS Wing Chun, now called GuangZhou Wing Chun. IN the Wikipedia about Wing Chun(Chinese version), they also bracketed a name beside called ‘Snake Crane Wing Chun’. You can also find a lot of old terms they used are exactly the old terms being used in Snake Crane Wing Chun, because both of them are from the same source ‘Sun Kam’, who is descended from ChiSin, Southern Shaolin. The Twin knieves, both they called them "YeeGeKimYeungDuMingDao’, is different from other lineages. Also, the side stance, both they called ‘GuyGinMa’. Also, the 3 hand forms are very similiar.
In1980, the Chief Editor, Mr. Liu Kwong Wah, of the New Martial Hero Magazine, Hong Kong submitted an article saying there are five main lineages in Hong Kong to the Hong Kong Times Daily. Snake Crane Wing Chun is one of them.
Since it keeps itself in very low profile, there are seldom people knowing its existence.
The above just very briefly discuss about the ‘Sun Kam’ lineage, which is also streaming down to YKS Wing Chun, then GuangZhow Wing Chun. The other lineages other than the source from Chi Sin or Sun Kam, they should be sourced from Ng Mui and other guardian monks, both they developed and picked up the skills. After the fire of Southern Shaolin, they escaped and scattered in the different of the China. That’s why different tributries have their own styles.
Wayne,
great to meet you.
The following is a brief from yik kam line.
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[QUOTE=ccwayne;1150082]Simply speaking, after the collapse of the Tai Ping Heavenly Kindom in the 1860s, a lot of rebellions, including RedBoat Opera, escape from persecution. Some were hiding, some were going to the South of China,(now Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore). That’s why there is BaungChung Wing Chun in Malaysia and Singapore. in between China and Thailand, it is very like between Wing Chun and nowadays Thai’s boxing. Fung Siu Ching was one of them, and he returned to GuangZhou meeting YuenKaiShan after the collape of Qing Dynasty. ‘Snake Crane Wing Chun’ is very closed to the YKS Wing Chun, now called GuangZhou Wing Chun. IN the Wikipedia about Wing Chun(Chinese version), they also bracketed a name beside called ‘Snake Crane Wing Chun’. You can also find a lot of old terms they used are exactly the old terms being used in Snake Crane Wing Chun, because both of them are from the same source ‘Sun Kam’, who is descended from ChiSin, Southern Shaolin. The Twin knieves, both they called them "YeeGeKimYeungDuMingDao’, is different from other lineages. Also, the side stance, both they called ‘GuyGinMa’. Also, the 3 hand forms are very similiar.
In1980, the Chief Editor, Mr. Liu Kwong Wah, of the New Martial Hero Magazine, Hong Kong submitted an article saying there are five main lineages in Hong Kong to the Hong Kong Times Daily. Snake Crane Wing Chun is one of them.
Since it keeps itself in very low profile, there are seldom people knowing its existence.
The above just very briefly discuss about the ‘Sun Kam’ lineage, which is also streaming down to YKS Wing Chun, then GuangZhow Wing Chun. The other lineages other than the source from Chi Sin or Sun Kam, they should be sourced from Ng Mui and other guardian monks, both they developed and picked up the skills. After the fire of Southern Shaolin, they escaped and scattered in the different of the China. That’s why different tributries have their own styles.[/QUOTE]
In my understanding, the pole set is different for different lineages. That is because different lineages belongs to different sect of lee man mau army. My ancestor yik kam is a lead of male playing female Actor sec. There are a few different sects and their salutations are also different. When they meet thier saluttion and pole set tell which set they belongs to.
Since you have 3 sets. It is very likely you are under Wong wah po. Yik kam keep one long set tradition, and Wong evolve into 3 sets.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1150085]In my understanding, the pole set is different for different lineages. That is because different lineages belongs to different sect of lee man mau army. My ancestor yik kam is a lead of male playing female Actor sec. There are a few different sects and their salutations are also different. When they meet thier saluttion and pole set tell which set they belongs to.
Since you have 3 sets. It is very likely you are under Wong wah po. Yik kam keep one long set tradition, and Wong evolve into 3 sets.
[/QUOTE]
Hendrik, Wong Wah Bo was said to have first taught Sun Kam the san sik that eventually made its way into the modern day Weng Chun curriculum before teaching Leung Jan the one SLT set before developing the individual sets (along with LJ).
Could he have gone back and taught Sun Kam the three sets that evolved from the long SLT?
Of course, this is just a thought.
[QUOTE=Runlikehell;1150090]Hendrik, Wong Wah Bo was said to have first taught Sun Kam the san sik that eventually made its way into the modern day Weng Chun curriculum before teaching Leung Jan the one SLT set before developing the individual sets (along with LJ).
Could he have gone back and taught Sun Kam the three sets that evolved from the long SLT?
Of course, this is just a thought.[/QUOTE]
Everything is possible.
My view on the evolution are as the following.
- I don’t know about weng Chun because that is a different art comparing to wing Chun.
2.Horse rider who is in this forum who is the descended of Leung jan lineage has provided the information of the long set break into three sets in last year post.
3.According to ancient chinese martial art , a complete art has two parts the or body and application. San Sik is belong to the application part. While set consist of both the body and the application part. So, one cannot make a complete art from just the application part or San
The snake engine is a core of the body of the art.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1150091]Everything is possible.
My view on the evolution are as the following.
- I don’t know about weng Chun because that is a different art comparing to wing Chun.
2.Horse rider who is in this forum who is the descended of Leung jan lineage has provided the information of the long set break into three sets in last year post.
3.According to ancient chinese martial art , a complete art has two parts the or body and application. San Sik is belong to the application part. While set consist of both the body and the application part. So, one cannot make a complete art from just the application part or San
The snake engine is a core of the body of the art.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your insight.
Regarding Weng Chun, it seemed possible because Wong Wah Bo was said to have taught that first. Some of their san sik apparently resembles some of the san sik Leung Jan taught in Kulo, but that could just mean common origins or similar techniques.
Others with experience in Weng Chun, older Wing Chun lineages or with knowledge of that particular part of their histories may know more.
Yeah, I remember his post. From memory he said that his family still practice the long SLT descending from Wong Wah Bo.
I can imagine, but it seems likely that san sik could be added into the set without actually creating a complete set/art as such.
Thanks again.