Very interesting posts Hendrik. Thanks for the information. I am also very interested in the origins of Wing Chun, and the missing pieces in the HK WC puzzle.
OM…
I give nothing as duties.
What others gives as duties,
I give as living impulses >from Walt Whitman
I give blab blab blab…
What others gives blab blab blab…
I give as blab blab blab…>from Hendrik (Da Lips)
Yawn…
ZZZzzzZZZ…
…humm >RH
Re: OM…
Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
[B]I give nothing as duties.
What others gives as duties,
I give as living impulses >from Walt Whitman
I give blab blab blab…
What others gives blab blab blab…
I give as blab blab blab…>from Hendrik (Da Lips)
Yawn…
ZZZzzzZZZ…
…humm >RH [/B]
LOL.
See beside trying to play words game.
What do you have?
In details and be specifics,
Where is the “official” Southern Shao Lin temple? Pu Tien? Chuan Chiu?.. Where is the Real Southern Shao Lin Temple?
Where? You guys make up your mind yet?
Why didn’t those Shao Lin Monks touring doing TAN SAU?
GET REAL.
Originally posted by [Censored]
Very interesting posts Hendrik. Thanks for the information. I am also very interested in the origins of Wing Chun, and the missing pieces in the HK WC puzzle.
There is no missing pieces.
it is only, with we know the mother of art;We all can open the lock of SLT and enjoy the fruit from our ancestors.
If the trace to the mother is screw up. then the lock will be eternally lock and the art gone within years.
It is impossible to open the lock of SLT with the Tai Chu type of Shao Lin DNA. Wrong DNA.
Hi Hendrik;
I do my best to ignore the trolls who dont contribute much of substance. I agree with parts of what you seem to say but I am puzzled about some other aspects of some of your posts.
My main points are as follows:
- I agree with you that taichi/taiji and win chun have entirely different structures and dynamics.
- i also agree that parts of the art will be lost if we make a stew of it… though individuals may benefit from the stew… what they pass on may change the art drastically in a few years.
- I also think that wing chun like many arts (including taiji) was devloped by astute elders who synthesized earlier things in a way so that the art is greater than the sum of its parts.
- I also agree that shaolin myths have been used in various ways for marketing purposes. China was dotted with Buddhist temples and many were extensions of the one in song san given
the propensities of monks to journey. The PRC has its own changing public relations agendas with respect to the song san shaolin as well as fukien. There probably was once some kind of a temple in canton too. - I also agree that the metaphors of the snake and the crane can
be intuitively useful in understanding some key energies in wing chun. - BUT- I very much disgree with Yang’s assertion that wing chun is simply a special case of fukien white crane. Too much water under the bridge. Wing chun is a far more mature and effective sytem than the fukien white crane that I have seen and I have seen Yang perform fukien white crane directly. Is your position similar to that of Yang atleast in part…about the crane?
Originally posted by yuanfen
[B]Hi Hendrik;
I do my best to ignore the trolls who dont contribute much of substance. I agree with parts of what you seem to say but I am puzzled about some other aspects of some of your posts.
My main points are as follows:
- BUT- I very much disgree with Yang’s assertion that wing chun is simply a special case of fukien white crane. Too much water under the bridge. Wing chun is a far more mature and effective sytem than the fukien white crane that I have seen and I have seen Yang perform fukien white crane directly. Is your position similar to that of Yang atleast in part…about the crane? [/B]
Joy,
Thanks for your advise about the Trolls.
Based on parallal of White Crane and Siu Lien Tao Kuen Kuit.
We talked about Crane 150years or more ago.
Not today’s Crane or YAng’s Crane…
Siu LIen Tau is not a special case of White Crane of Fujien.
It has it’s own identity. We have written document evident to support this. Tell Yang next time directly if you see him.
Siu Lien Tau’s “Snake” ancestor itself is a very advance art. As advance or even more then TaiJI.
All our minor or the “little” or Detail or the inch power are from this “snake” ancestor. With this Snake there are alots of things SLT different to White Crane. However, There are indeed certain part of SLT which is adapting White Crane’s core component which we have to admit honestly.
As in the written record passed down by Yik Kam the Red Junk actor said,
" in the dead bed of Miau Soon, Miau Told Yim Yee that what he taught Yim Yee is NOT White Crane of Ng Mui. But an art create by Miau with the Crane of Ng Mui and Miau own art ( The Ermei 12 post as we find out only at 1970’s. Due to parallel of Kuen Kuit. between 12 post and SLT). And Miau Named this art SIu Lien Tau."
Siu Lien Tau’s “Snake” ancestor itself is a very advance art. As advance or even more then TaiJI.
Does this art still exist?
..and do you have a webpage on your WC Hendrik?
Originally posted by S.Teebas
[B]
Does this art still exist?
..and do you have a webpage on your WC Hendrik? [/B]
-
don’t have a webpage.
Check the www.wingchunkuen.com for infor. -
Yes. It exists and survive good.
It is the Ermei 12 Post.
This art was a kept style for hundreds of years.
According to Mr. Chow Chien-Chuan, this style was created in Song Dynasty which is much earlier then Ming dynasty.
It is a traditional that The person who learn it has to vow to not released it to the outsider of the Ermei Mt’s Goldern Summit Temple.
This style is brought to public at 1950’s by the Gate holder Mr. Chow Chien-Chuan. Who was a famous TCM doctor in China. Later, we found certain Kuen Kuit of 12 Post or 12 Zhuang parallal with the Yik Kam Kuen Kuit of SLT. Thereby we conclude the research at 1970 very solidly that
what in the written record has its facts.
and we know Miau Soon whoever his real name is has to related to the Goldern Summit Temple of Ermei Mt. And he is the one who leak the art out from Ermei.
There is a big different between the Tai Cho or Tai Zhu based of Shao Lin art DNA which stated " San Chaan Tong NA or side jump, quick step…"
compare with the Ermei’s DNA which stated " Gentlely subdue the enermy within split of inch".
Thus, it is absurd to claim the Shao Lin San Chaan Tong NA type of style to be the Ancestor or the Original of SLT or WCK.
Recently, there is a friendly seminal? meeting? between the Ermei style and the Shao Lin style in Ermei. Where everyone shows their style.
Furthermore, The creator of the 12 post of Ermei was a Daoist who converted to Buddhist. His Title is the White Cloud Chan monk. Due to Ermei also practicing Esoteric Buddhism. ( similar to the Tibetian Buddhism which Guru.)
The snake mother of SLT has a mix of Daoist, Chan, and esoteric Buddhism based. It is an art to cultivate meditation, healling, and Self defence. It is different to those Chan Talk as one sees in the Website.
Due to White Cloud monk is a Daoist and expert in TCM, the set he created is using the Daoist or TCM energy path as model of human body energy (mind/qi/physical body) instead of the Chakra system of Esoteric buddhism which passed from India.
Thereby, the link between buddhism cultivation and SLT has to be from Goldern Summit temple. Not Shao LIn.
Certainly not from Website. We know where and who and which lineage…
We even know they speak Fujian in the Red Junk while teaching SLT. Not Tan Sau Ng’s diarect.
Sorry Hendrik-I have come to the stage where without seeing your art I no longer understand what you aresaying beyond the importance of the crane and snake historically.Could be a problem of language and my inability to see clarity in some of your points. Some are however striking. As far as I can experience the sytem that has come down from Leung jan and Ip Man- when properly taught and understood is pretty deep as a martial art. Yours apprently is a different route. “History” is interesting but martial arts are full of stories piled up on each other or competing with each other. Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions- including mine.
Hi Joy,
since your question is about White Crane and Yang’s comment.
I give you my answer.
IMHO,
Deep has to have a tangible and achieveable based in both Mind/qi/body if it is a Chinese Martial art. Otherwise, it will be just stories which cannot be analysed and implemented.
In addition, there is a different between martial art DNA and history.
History can be describe from different view and can be used as direction pointer.
However, martial art DNA is a fact.
Thanks for the answers hendrik. I must say your history is interesting to say the least. 
Is your style Ban Chung Wing Choon?
Yuanfen comments in brackets.
Hendrik posts:
(Thanks Hendrik))
Deep has to have a tangible and achieveable based in both Mind/qi/body if it is a Chinese Martial art. Otherwise, it will be just stories which cannot be analysed and implemented.
(Understandable and understood. Doesnt have to be stories- there is such a thing as transmission)))
In addition, there is a different between martial art DNA and history.
History can be describe from different view and can be used as direction pointer.
However, martial art DNA is a fact.
((Interesting metaphor- but what is a martial art dna? Coceptually or
operationally?)) Yuanfen
Yuanfen comments in brackets.
Hendrik posts:
(Thanks Hendrik))
Deep has to have a tangible and achieveable based in both Mind/qi/body if it is a Chinese Martial art. Otherwise, it will be just stories which cannot be analysed and implemented.
(Understandable and understood. Doesnt have to be stories- there is such a thing as transmission)))
In addition, there is a different between martial art DNA and history.
History can be describe from different view and can be used as direction pointer.
However, martial art DNA is a fact.
((Interesting metaphor- but what is a martial art dna? Conceptually or
operationally?)) Yuanfen
Hendrik, more info on Ermei 12 post?
Hendrik,
Where might one find more information on the Ermei (or Omei?)
12 Post style you mention?
Are there books/videos/instructors for reference?
Can you describe this system and it’s syllabus of techniques, principles and training?
Thanks,
David Williams
Hendrik’s new song
–Siu Lien Tau’s “Snake” ancestor itself is a very advance art. As advance or even more then TaiJI.–HS
**Once again, an outsider claiming inside knowlege of another art. Wing chun is too good to leave its reputation in the hands, or the keyboards of such peeping Tom like Da Lips Hendrik.
–All our minor or the “little” or Detail or the inch power are from this “snake” ancestor. With this Snake there are alots of things SLT different to White Crane. However, There are indeed certain part of SLT which is adapting White Crane’s core component which we have to admit honestly.–HS
**You jumped right on the white crane bandwagan and made a lot of false claims. In truth you want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud. The name of your game is the art of going wrong with confidence.
–" in the dead bed of Miau Soon, Miau Told Yim Yee that what he taught Yim Yee is NOT White Crane of Ng Mui. But an art create by Miau with the Crane of Ng Mui and Miau own art ( The Ermei 12 post as we find out only at 1970’s. Due to parallel of Kuen Kuit. between 12 post and SLT). And Miau Named this art SIu Lien Tau."–HS
**A peeping Tom is always BREAKING INTO SONG - LOL,“some secret deal between Miau Soon and Yim Yee.” When it comes to spreading gossip, some lips is much faster than mail. Miau Soon wouldn’t have to do it if he had The Key to the real WCK SLT, Chum Kil and Bil Gee like our WCK ancestor Wong Wah-Bo.
ABC
–In addition, there is a different between martial art DNA and history.
History can be describe from different view and can be used as direction pointer.–HS
**Bill Clinton is a white man and Bill Cosby is a black man. Keep doing what you’re doing, soon you’ll likely to win a prize.
–However, martial art DNA is a fact.–HS
**It’s interesting to observe just how fragile your joke is. When you tell a story, give the impression that you are enjoying yourself. BTW, on this subject of martial art DNA. Both The Ip Man Ving Tsun Tong and The Ving Tsun Museum are a light year ahead of you.
Originally posted by S.Teebas
[B]Thanks for the answers hendrik. I must say your history is interesting to say the least.
Is your style Ban Chung Wing Choon? [/B]
Ban Chung means In the Opera. Which WCK is not from the Red Jung Opera?
Re: Hendrik, more info on Ermei 12 post?
Originally posted by planetwc
[B]Hendrik,
Where might one find more information on the Ermei (or Omei?)
12 Post style you mention?
Are there books/videos/instructors for reference?
Can you describe this system and it’s syllabus of techniques, principles and training?
Thanks,
David Williams [/B]
Hi David,
The Books I got are in Chinese Written by Mr. Chow or Zhou.
There are other books by his decendents who were monks and Chinese TCM doctors.
In September 2000, KungFumagazine has a special on Omei mountain kungfu. There you can find some about The 12 Zhuang.
It is a profound system, so it is difficult to describe in a few words.
Basically, this is a “meditation system” with Cultivation to enlightement is the main goal, Healling and MArtial art are bi product.
I would not trust instructor outside China without a long term observation. Since it is well known that this system is difficult to master. One of the Grandmaster admit it in an interview. It required TCM, Buddhism,… alots of cultivation. It is a monk’s art basically.
Since you have some kungfu brothers who is Chinese. Check into the Chinese books. That is more reliable.
Good Luck
Re: Yuanfen comments in brackets.
Originally posted by yuanfen
[B]
((Interesting metaphor- but what is a martial art dna? Conceptually or
operationally?)) Yuanfen [/B]
Joy,
There are Three main Schools of Chinese matial art.
They are Shaolin, Wudang, and Emei.
Each has different Conceptual and Operational path.
other Example,
the White Crane using San Chin stance.
The Hung Gar using Wide horse stance.
The Siu Lien Tau using YJKYM.
So, even if they have the same hand technics due to thier stance is different the hand technics has to be implement differently.
SLT doesn’t use Sanchin Stance but YJKYM. That shows a fundamental different between White Crane and SLT.
Still one can replace Sanchin Stance to do SLT. That will be White Crane way.
YJKYM structure "force " one to use a different type of Jing, pay attention to each small detail and “feeling” while in movement.
Someone might try to use the Hung Gar or Shao Lin stance to do SLT. But that no longer is SLT.
dont make me laugh
If you were really interested in talking about WCK you would stop sounding like a fortune cooking. Instead of showing proof about your little "story: you would rather give a vtm statement like “you have to experiance it in person” --how zen of you. You are just like all the other Fakers out there, all talk, no proof. And since you are not a spokesperson for the ip man family. please refrane from making blanket statements like siu nim tao isnt about nim. you obviously dont have a clue what my families siu nim tao is about. Im not sure if you know what your families siu lien tao is about. Ip man familly siu nim tao is used to develop the yi and the nim as well as the physical structure–root–body unity and basic ging manifestation
And what excactly do you mean by “sun” ? or would you rather sound like an obscure dial a fortune?