Does anybody know the competition differences between Judo and Shuai Jiao? I’m a competitive Judoka and I’m looking at trying a Shuai Jiao competition. What are the do’s and don’ts of Judo vs Shuai Jiao. Time limits, scoring, legal and illegal techniques, etc. Also- where would a person get a Shuai Jiao uniform?
the event promoter should have rules available.
MB, you going to go to the GLT?
we’ll be there.
Most common variances:
No ne-waza
No sacrifice throws
No chokes
CSC rules are a little different:
Punches & kicks allowed
Ground work allowed, but if more than 30 seconds new fighters rush the stage and beat on both opponents.
[QUOTE=Oso;838496]MB, you going to go to the GLT?
we’ll be there.[/QUOTE]
Probably… depends on my finances at the time.
My Sifu usually goes, so I was thinking about tagging along this year.
Me and a couple of my Judo boys were thinking about trying SC there. We’ll still be primed cuz that takes place just about when the Midwestern competitive Judo circuit ends. So we all will still be in good fighting shape.
Shuai Chiao has a much deeper technical base and many throws that are illegal in Judo.
Judo often gets you more people to randori with so your shuai fa can really develop. Not as many people in Shuai Chiao so bonus to Judo. Judo (in my opinion) has faster footwork, but Shuai Chiao has better handwork/gripping/ controlling knowledge.
I have teacher rank in both, these are just my observations. (It has been 20+ years since I did Judo.)
Why do you say SC has a much deeper technical base?
Thanks
Jake 
"Why do you say SC has a much deeper technical base? "
Because kung fu is always better, and is more sophistcated, technical and deadly than any other art.
[QUOTE=Mas Judt;838588]Shuai Chiao has a much deeper technical base and many throws that are illegal in Judo.
Judo often gets you more people to randori with so your shuai fa can really develop. Not as many people in Shuai Chiao so bonus to Judo. Judo (in my opinion) has faster footwork, but Shuai Chiao has better handwork/gripping/ controlling knowledge.
I have teacher rank in both, these are just my observations. (It has been 20+ years since I did Judo.)[/QUOTE]
In Judo competition you can’t hold the belt for longer than a specified amount of time and you can’t grab the upper back past the mid-line of the person (at least where I’ve trained and competed), and aside from this, I see and use practically every conceivable way of grabbing the person and fighting for grip. In fact, every person does this differently and can defend and tie you up in bizarre ways.
That said, how does Shuai Chiao differ that dramatically?
Is it in the setups? Are they more pronounced and focused on?
In fact, every person does this differently and can defend and tie you up in bizarre ways.
That was my experience in Judo too. But in the Shuai Chiao there was systemized training and strategies for grip and control combined with different footwork strategies. This why I say it has a deeper base. It is true of almost every aspect of the Shuai Chiao.
My training partner when I was learning Shuai Chiao was also the guy I got my Shodan in Judo under. He was a well-known Judo champ here in Chicago. The combination training and the more flexible throwing syllabus improved his already considerable skill base. Wally Barbar, an old time Judo guy in Chicago was frankly horrified.
That said, a really good Judo guy is just as dangerous as a really good Shuai Chiao guy in my opinion - when it comes to free wrestling. I think Shuai chiao translates better to free-fighting, but that is another thread. Judo is actually easier to learn throwing in the beginning because of the emphasis on the stages of the throw - the kake/kuzushi theory that in my opinion makes Judo footwork very swift.
Trained well, I believe Shuai Chiao will give you an edge. It’s biggest deficiency is the limited number of people to compete against. Which inhibits the development of Shuai Fa - in my opinion.
It worked for me. But if you only have Judo - that’s a good combat sport. If your choice is a mediocre Shuai Chiao teacher and a mediocre Judo teacher, I’d do the Judo because you’ll more easily learn and meet good players. But of you have a good Shuai Chiao coach - THAT is ****ing gold.
Shuai Chiao rules
MightyB -
I will attempt to explain some of the rules of SC. I am not fully versed on the Judo rules though.
1 point throw =
Trip or make someone fall flat on their back (without them spinning or twirling in the air).
3 points touching the ground by anyone. 2 feet + 1 hand touching or 1 foot + 2 hands.
2 point throw =
The legs and or body has to has to spin in the air.
Example - The common hip throw (stepping in, grab around their waist and lift them over your hip, their legs flip and spin in the air).
3 point throw =
The person is lifted and or thrown above your head with the legs spinning and or rotating.
In SC there is no sacrifice throwing.
The SC Jacket differs a bit from Judo Jacket. It is smaller and tighter to the body.
Fighter are only allowed to grip the same hold for 3 seconds, then the ref should ask them to switch grips.
Every group or organization has different time contraints. Ours is 2 - 3 minute rounds with 1 minute rest between. 10 point spread is auto winner.
I have fought in other tourneys where 1st throw wins or fighting on top of a lei tai. That was fun throwing peeps of the top. Scroring should be similar in all other orgs.
Ginosifu
In Judo competition you can’t hold the belt for longer than a specified amount of time
In SC you can only have a grip for a 5 sec. or something before you have to move or regrip differently. It’s different in the lvl you are going in.
SC Jackets
MightyB
You can get SC Jackets thru me:
or Daniel Weng:
http://www.shuai-chiao.org/catalog/
Ginosifu 
I wish the jackets weren’t so expensive.
They are nice, good quality, heavy duty fabric and I understand that they are not mass produced so that affects the cost. But, it is a deterent to competing in the competition I think.
Not really a criticism, just saying. My folks that are coming are thinking about buying 1 jacket and sharing 
Cheaper than BJJ gi’s! Get what you pay for!
Jake
well, I don’t usually go for the $200 dollar gi’s…my judo/jj gi is just a simple Martial Arts Marts double weave (that’ll be $5, Gene 
)
again, not a criticism, but for folks that train some throwing who might like to compete (who are going to be at the event anyway), dropping another 90-100 on
top of travel, lodging and food on the road for a couple of days can sometimes be beyond the budget. It’s the only reason I didn’t do it in 2000.
I don’t see a way around the issue though:
lack of mass production = higher cost on the end product.
you can’t supply ‘loaners’ in an age of MRSA
so: some folks can’t afford it so they can’t compete in an event that requires a specific uniform.
it’s nobody’s fault…like I said, just saying. Maybe wiser heads than mine can come up with a solution.
edit
personally, I think TC/KFMO/MAM should get back in the business of producing/selling SC/SJ jackets just for the purpose of aiding the cause of TCMA. @ Gene
But in the Shuai Chiao there was systemized training and strategies for grip and control combined with different footwork strategies.
This is an interesting observation.
My experience in TRAINING judo has been almost entirely with high level competitive judoka, and gripwork was systemized and strategized to death for the simple reason that everybody at that level can throw incredibly well already…that’s how they got there. So gripping and conditioning are the tools to hone. Tons ot time spent doing gripwork. I use those gripwork strategies and concepts in my BJJ practice, actually.
I’ll admit that the rules of Judo do not allow the VARIETY of gripping, however.
[QUOTE=Merryprankster;839103]This is an interesting observation.
My experience in TRAINING judo has been almost entirely with high level competitive judoka, and gripwork was systemized and strategized to death for the simple reason that everybody at that level can throw incredibly well already…that’s how they got there. So gripping and conditioning are the tools to hone. Tons ot time spent doing gripwork. I use those gripwork strategies and concepts in my BJJ practice, actually.
I’ll admit that the rules of Judo do not allow the VARIETY of gripping, however.[/QUOTE]
Conditioning and grip. That’s a huge part of our Judo program.
Still, with limited throwing ability, such as myself, the better grip helps neutralize things a bit and keep control of the other person. At least until I go flying into the floor.
An orange belt from our club recently made a brown belt from another club vomit during a competition. Apparently our fighters are known in the city for their conditioning. That’s probably why class is so grueling.
[QUOTE=Oso;838863]I wish the jackets weren’t so expensive.
:)[/QUOTE]
Didn’t martialartsmart used to have a complete shuai chiao uniform (jacket and pants) for like $50? Somebody did but I can’t find the listing anymore.
[QUOTE=shuaichiao;839362]Didn’t martialartsmart used to have a complete shuai chiao uniform (jacket and pants) for like $50? Somebody did but I can’t find the listing anymore.[/QUOTE]
they did, I asked Gene about it a while back…economics. they weren’t selling enough to quantify production.