Spelling
The fact that he spells it “jujitsu” and not “jujutsu” makes it very clear he’s referring to Brazillian Jujitsu as the classical Japanese styles would be spelled Jujutsu.
Yeah, if he actually wrote it and it wasn’t transcribed by someone else.
As far as I can see, we don’t have enough info.
I am the Grand Ultimate Silk Pyjama
Awwww c’mon guys, how the hell would JJJ be the art they are discussing in this paragraph???
“Jujitsu masters have done very well in international price-fighting competitions. They got their opponents to the ground, applied arm locks or neck locks on them, and won handsomely – without any tincture of crudeness or brutality that is not uncommon in many other martial arts.”
BJJ is fought at “price-fighting competitions” all over the world. Brazil, Japan, USA, Mexico, Europe, Saudi Arabia, Russia, and Im sure there are many more places.
What kind of “price-fighting competitions” does JJJ win “handsomely” in?
Contrary to what peaple believe BJJ truly is a soft art. A choke out or a submission isnt going to be considered “brutality” unless the guy doesnt tap!
Since when is the gameplan for JJJ to " got their opponents to the ground, applied arm locks or neck locks on them"???
BTW no matter where BJJ came from, Helio Gracie disected and reinvented it so that it would work for his skinny, weak frame making it totally different from anything else. My favorite quote from Helio is “Give me leverage and I can lift the world”. I believe thats just what he did.
I notice that there are quite a few peaple on here that, for some reason, hate BJJ and cant stand to hear anything positive about it so they try to bring it down. To me those are the “insecure” ones.
Peace
Why can’t some of you accept that a kung fu master has good things to say about BJJ?
The only JJJ guy that I can think of that did well in NHB is Remco Pardoel,he was an all European champ and even though he had 77 pounds on Royce he still got beaten by him.
“You’re Good Kid Real Good,But As Long As I’m Arround You’ll Always Be Second Best See”.
no - people here don’t hate BJJ
generally they hate the mouthy, ego-fluffing, big-headed practitioners who ride on the back of the hard-earned achievements of the top BJJ fighters. The fact that these mouthy eejits usually have the following traits:
- have trained less than 2 years, only in BJJ (if at all)
- have never competed
- possess only the first 5 UFC videos
explains the attitude
For the most part that has been the representation of BJJ on this forum - there are a few exceptions who come here to discuss various topics and help educate us in the finer points of grappling. They tend to have the following traits:
- have trained longer than they care to remember, in a few other arts before they came to BJJ
- have competed
- know a lot about the top flight competitors beyond the Gracie family
- are respectful of others
I’m in no way categorising anyone in this thread - just explaining the prevailing attitudes here.
Final note on this - for the most part, being ‘positive about BJJ’ is generally packaged in a thread that read “Kung-fu sucks, yada yada yada, so does every other martial art, yada yada yada, BJJ is superior because it wins in the ring, yada yada yada”. Positive about BJJ is rarely seperated from negative about everything else on this forum.
ON TOPIC - the quote talks about the well-rounded art of JuJitsu. BJJ is not a well-rounded art - the leading practitioners all acknowledge this (Royce proves it every time he kicks :)). So the guy has either taken the BJJ victories and lumped them in with JJ, OR he is talking about some other competition circuit (lord knows what) where JJJ succeeds. Either way he isn’t coming across as particularly well-informed about BJJ/JJJ.
“If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t more people happy?”
I have read that BJJ is almost identical to original Koodokan Judo, before the competition aspect was added. I don’t remember where I read it but it was an article on Jigiro Kano and his fighters who totally destroyed the JJ practitioners in Japan during an event(very famous).
I agree…
Kaitan (UK)'s opinion about BJJ and its representation on this forum seems to me to be spot on. While we’re all here, the main differences between BJJ and JJ are… 
Dude, you can’t quote different parts of a work and smoosh 'em together like that.
It’ll be easier to just follow your link, but here’s what Wong Kiew Kit says after the first paragraph you posted:
"Nevertheless, jujitsu does not have the great advantage of internal force and solid stances that great kungfu like Shaolin or Taijiquan has. Indeed, looking back at my sparring and actual fightings in the past, it was internal force and solid stance more than anything else that helped me come out of the combat unhurt.
But the greatest advantage Shaolin or Taijiquan has over jujitsu is in spiritual development. Basically jujitsu is a great fighting art, but Shaolin and Taijiquan can lead their practitioners to the highest spiritual attainment."
This I’ll post for fun (follows where the last line in the above post left off):
"What would happen if a jujitsu master got a Shaolin or Taijiquan master onto the ground and applied an arm lock or neck lock on him?
In the first place, the Shaolin or Taijiquan master would not allow the jujitsu master get him onto the ground. To be so would be a case of Shaolin or Taijiquan at its weakest matching jujitsu at its strongest.
So, if it were a real fight of life and death, as soon as the jujitsu master moved in to grap his waist or legs to bring him onto the ground, the Shaolin or Taijiquan master would call forth his strongest points – his solid stance and internal force. He would sink down his stance to neutralize the throw and, if necessary, smash his palm with internal force onto the attacker’s head, killing or maiming him – reminding us, unfortunately, the brutality of life-death combat. Shaolin and Taijiquan masters are generally compassionate. So the master might strike the opponent’s shoulder instead, fracturing or dislocating it.
But, what would happen if the jujitsu master succeeded in getting the Shaolin or Taijiquan master onto the ground. This would be a good example of the jujitsu master winning the situation because of superior “kung” although his technique was inferior. On the ground, it would also be “kung” that would decide the victor.
Technically speaking, at least two limbs are needed to effectively lock one limb, hence leaving the opponent’s other limb free. So while the jujitsu master locked the Shaolin or Taijiquan master’s arm or neck – which would take a few seconds to be effectively implemented – the latter would use his free hand to jab into the former’s side, and pulled out a rib. This was possible if the Shaolin or Taijiquan master had sufficient “kung” to penetrate the jujitsu master’s side. If the former’s “kung” was lacking, his arm or neck would be broken."
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>
bjj is not JJJ, Wong Kiew Kit is talking about the japanese art and not the “brawling gracies slugfest” version of it.
[/quote]
:rolleyes: LOL at Kung Lek’s BJJ hating sillyness.
I remember Royce winning the first UFC’s with superior technique without “slugging” his opponents unconsious.
BTW, I read that Maeda called his art jujitsu in brazil because kodokan judo didnt allow price fighting.
Kostaja,
That’s correct. I’d forgotten that.
Bottom Line-- the man was a Judoka. Unfortunately, I can’t fly out to the Kodokan to check their records, but that’s what he was. Nobody really argues the point that he was Judo. In fact, this has led to some very heated debates on the Sambo and Judo Q & A forum on mixedmartialarts.com about whether or not BJJ is just a groundwork specialized version of Judo.
As far as BJJ being what Kodokan Judo was before WWII that is both true and not true. BJJ has a wider range of legal submissions, that were common to Judo before the war. However, even Jigoro Kano believed that the primary emphasis of Judo should be on throwing. I believe he suggested 80% standing and 20% groundwork or something to that effect. I don’t see that in BJJ at all. I would say that I spend MORE than 80% of my time on the ground.
could i just repeat what i said , wong kiew kit was referring to bjj but he was describing jjj as being good . hence why he say sit is better than judo
This is because THC is not an alkaloid. It does not contain a nitrogen atom, therefore it is a terpenophenolic compound
merry, maeda was a classical jujutsu player and this is what he taught Carlos, Helio and the other first generation brothers.
I have nothing against Gracies styles.I think they have a great style that is highly effective, but I also have to add that gracie Jujitsu (spelling doesn’t matter from east to west)is far superior to BJJ anyday of teh week and I’m sure teh Gracies don’t want to have their style mixed in with that stuff.
In fact the Gracie’s themselves have a problem with the pollution of jujutsu in brazil with every fraud and phony making a sham of the art. by the way, here’s a snippet for ya and I quote
“It is his son Gastão Gracie, who was the father of Carlos Gracie and who arranged for Carlos to study classical Japanese Jiu-Jitsu with the former Japanese champion, Mitsuyo Maeda (known in Brazil as Conde Koma, the “Count of Combat”).”
This is a comment concerning George Gracie the Father of the whole clan who emigrated from Scotland.
So, I think I’ll be taking the facts from the Gracies before I take em from someone here on the forum.
peace all you “otherground trollers”
Kung Lek
Jesus!
The man they learned from was a JUDOKA. Which part of entered the Kodokan at 18 wasn’t clear?
You think GJJ and BJJ are DIFFERENT? They aren’t. Not at all. GJJ is a MARKETING term used by Rorion Gracie and Torrance Academy affiliates. Legally, nobody else can use that to market BJJ. Rickson, for instance cannot market GJJ… he CAN market Rickson Gracie Jiujitsu.
As far as some sort of “difference,” in the styles it simply doesn’t exist.
It’s not “the Gracies themselves.” It’s Helio and Rorion, and until recently, possibly Royce (who split from TA recently). Carlson doesn’t have a problem with “pollution,” Renzo doesn’t have a problem with “pollution,” Rickson doesn’t have a problem with “pollution.”
Look, Helio and Rorion have done some fairly amazing things, both personally and from a business perspective, but that does not make their word law.
Bruce Lee did some fairly amazing things, both personally and from a business perspective, does that mean that Kung Fu is a classical mess?
Do the research. I have. The preponderance of evidence points to a Judoka who taught the Gracies, regardless of what it was called. Gracie JJ is no different than BJJ. I’m sorry, but I don’t just “take the Gracie’s word for it.”
So don’t take mine either. Do the research.
I have an interview with Royce and he says that Gracie Jujitsu is pretty much the same as japanese jujitsu except he says they simply added more spices here nd there. Differences in training and so forth. So I too believe that they originally learned Jujitsu.
A very wise man once said
" I told him to forget it because he could not learn anything if he thought he knew everything already." =)
I couldnt think of a better time to use that quote!
BTW MartialKnight, since were having so much “fun” what do you think of this quote? You seem to have overlooked it. lol
“Kungfu is a great martial art, but most kungfu students, including those who have won international competitions, cannot use their kungfu tefchniques for fighting. Muai thai is simple – but not easy, yet most muai thai exponents are good fighters.”
The Gracies say he was a JiuJitsu guy, it was just masked as Judo like they say it happened to many other JiuJitsu guys so that westerners were not taught the real thing. If thats true or not i dont know, but thats whtat the Gracies say.
When you are surrounded by kids, enlighten them with Bruce Lee quotes.
They will love you and honor you for that.
More stuff…
The Gracies know the stand up locks from JJJ that are definatly not in Judo and they still teach it, at least the ones that come from Helio. Do you think they reinvented this locks? No, they learned it from Maeda.
When you are surrounded by kids, enlighten them with Bruce Lee quotes.
They will love you and honor you for that.
3 posts in a row, wow!
For those that think that people in Asia execpt Japan never heard of BJJ might be wrong:
http://www.sanshou.net/info-eng.htm
Scroll down there is some stuff about BJJ, its in chinese…
When you are surrounded by kids, enlighten them with Bruce Lee quotes.
They will love you and honor you for that.
Eh,
whatever. I guess it’s really no skin off my back where it came from 
When it gets down to it, I suppose it just doesn’t matter much!
Sure, none of this will change your training. The stuff you learn is relevant the rest is details.
When you are surrounded by kids, enlighten them with Bruce Lee quotes.
They will love you and honor you for that.