hendrik
may be because they dont understand resultant force..and perhaps dont sense the vectors existance, but force thing with will … IMHO
so then we have come full cycle to really be able to issue power from a non static position you must also be able to ‘’ accept what comes ‘’ and understand what it is telling you ‘’ listen ‘’ before you yell
perhaps another day and thread we can break down the accepting and listening aspect 
originally posted by hendrik
By Yi (will or mind) he meant that in practicing boxing, every movement must be guided by a certain idea.
So you agree with Yi just not Hung Fa Yi .
originally posted by hendrik
There no need for Baijong or recovery steps because every steps is already within balance or Zhong which is ready for any engage.
You preach about zhong and mispeak about 5 line theory and center line concepts.
originally posted by duende
YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT BAI JONG IS.
No truer words were ever written on this board.
Keith,
No HFY members came into this discussion until invited by hendrik with his discussion of HFY concepts which he has no knowledge of, hendrik shines this spotlight on himself discussing the nature of Bia jong when he has no expereince to speak of because he can read the words does not mean he has experienced the meaning. Unfortunate that when he is corrected you take offense to this truth. Why not just ask him for his understanding of the term bia jong, no wait I will …hendrik explain your understanding of the true nature of bia jong as practiced in Hung Fa Yi.
Originally posted by Ernie
[B]hen
so then we have come full cycle to really be able to issue power from a non static position you must also be able to ‘’ accept what comes ‘’ and understand what it is telling you ‘’ listen ‘’ before you yell
perhaps another day and thread we can break down the accepting and listening aspect [/B]
Ernie,
even our own arms have to communicate with our own legs, imho.
Sure, we can break things down now because we have lots of technology being taken apart and clear up.
it is no longer magic but intent with proper focus/intend adding to proper 2 or multi-way communication of the whole body and environment.
See, when that happen, the picture is similar to the transformation of water into any shape. resultant force itself is also communication— it has its own life as a fragment and identity in a whole… so signal communocation and power line transportation is one.
similar to USB 2 where power / data communication is one and high speed. It doesnt go through the cpu but has its own inteligent to adapt once the cpu give and instruction / intent to execute.
It is that USB 2 type of technology I am taking about. not those serial interface stuffs with protocall and protocall and always needs the cpu to process information and putting execution in wait states.
You see the picture? yes, i intend to go Matrix way of communication. otherwise, if i tell the next generation---- Laotzu said, dao can be named is not dao… the Pokemon generation will laugh and said what the heck you talking about.
so, we can substitute the word " intuition " with scanning. we can scan energy distribution of an object… even a picture to know… because we can also emulate the energy pattern beside scanning… in the ancient time, there is an idea of using your art to defeat you. with scanning and emulation and synthesis… we are one step closer to that
So, the mission is attain it and describe it with Matrix picture. once they see the picture they can synthesis it and grow for themself. we cannot communicate like hundreds of years ago . time has changed technology has grown, physical world environment has changed… we can no longer go back. we cannot stop in the past and stop growing… it is about creation, but not playing GOD, because we understand without others living in peace we will not exist.
LoL, when high tech meet with WCK in silicon valley. wild things created. 
Re: You HFY guys amaze me!
Originally posted by KPM
[B]
Duende, Canglong, etc. All you HFY guys should be ashamed of the pure venom and ill-will you have displayed in the posts on this thread. My opinion of your family has dropped another notch as a result.
Keith [/B]
Kieth, don’t make it appear as though you are defending Hendrick. Your posts on the WCML speak for themselves. Your opinion of HFYWC is well known. You are definetly one of the masses who gossip and contribute to the negativty on that list. The two faces of KPM is a subtle rouse that people need to be aware of. Therefore, “My opinion of [you] has dropped another notch as a result.”
-David
Ernie,
Without Bai Jong, you have nothing. You have no grounding, no structure, no target, no focus, no awareness of your oponents oncomming energy. Nothing. And… There’s a hell alot more to it than that.
To say that there is no need for Bai Jong is the most idiotic thing a WC person could say imo.
In every single fight I’ve been in since learning WC… It is my Bai Jong structure and concepts that made the fight end before it could really begin.
Tecniques are great… but without the underlying knowledge that makes those techniques work. You have nothing.
Hendrick,
I see what you’re saying- I am the center, you are the center, we are the center- assuming one prevents recognizing another. Nonetheless, each must be studied to be able to flow between them. Using a certain skill is different from attaining it.
The Yi Chuan thing- Rene Latosa explained it best- ‘have a little forward feeling, not moving, but almost like you’re just about to throw up’. The man has motion in stillness and stillness in motion pinned.
Victor,
your thinking and mine are along very similar lines. Something I’ve been playing with lately- keeping the line from my CoG to my line to ground maximally mobile between my legs (and, in grappling to whatever I’m using for base), attempting to perceive that line in my partner, then attempting to lock that line by compression or overextention, and controlling which part of the foot it’s going into, as a setup for emitting force. The weird (and cool) byproduct of this is that it makes my partner become more ‘substantial’ and much easier to shock.
Ernie,
?Sunday?
HFY people,
You’ve succeeded in lowering the tone. Broken fingers would be a public service.
Andrew
The way I currently look at it, you have expansion and contraction from the center, rotation around, on, or into the center, project from the center, and creation/destruction of centers. These are pretty much summed up in SLT, CK, and BJ (or for Hendrik, SLT section 1, 2, and 3).
I think Andrew raises a valuable point about the center, in use, being a dynamic combination of two individual centers, almost an articulation so to speak, and while that grants manipulation, it does so for both.
Hendrick get an original thought
"----- if this is true then there is no need to take pot shots , … simply post your information in a clear simple fashion , and let the information speak for itself , that’s the cool thing about the truth and facts and skill these things stand out " - Ernie
That’s a good idea Ernie! Let’s see one example of “Hendrick’s” knowledge.
" from shape, to distance, to energy, to fighting stratergy, to mind directing… I think we need to take a part everything , examine them both in a single …" - Hendrick
Single:
“In Siu Nim Tau training a myiad of three dimensional space and time tools were identified and trained.” - Mastering Kung Fu p.131
“…and complex relationship form. otherwise, we will be screw in chaos or over idealistic simplified.”- Hedrick
Complex:
“Chum Kiu takes takes these tools and merges them into five arrays (called Ng Jan Chiu Min Jeui Ying) that incorporate energies needed to support proper strategies and tactics for combat.”
“so, the open close… cannot be view as a single monotonous subject.” - the open, close.. all exist in the same instant," - Hendrick
Same instant:
“Awareness of the five arrays is a tool to return to the reality of the moment rather than focus on the illusion of a predetermined cycle.” - Mastering Kung Fu p.135
-David
Originally posted by AndrewS
[B]Hendrick,
I see what you’re saying- I am the center, you are the center, we are the center- assuming one prevents recognizing another. Nonetheless, each must be studied to be able to flow between them. Using a certain skill is different from attaining it.
[/B]
Yup, enter into non duality.
as osense said, like the moonlight, envelop your opponent, physically, spiritually, until there is no seperation between you…
Hey Rene,
hence, the ‘soft’ thing- don’t let them know you, while you know them.
Later,
Andrew
P.S. Thanks for the summary, I’ve been tight for time and haven’t had a chance to type of my notes yet to return the favor.
" … even our own arms have to communicate with our own legs, imho." - Hendrick
“Yi Sau Daai Geuk, Yi Geuk Daai Sau - Use Hand Lead Foot, Use Foot Lead Hand” - Mastering Kung Fu - p.211
And you say that’s your opinion? I say that “opinion” came from the Kuen Kuit section of the glossary !!! HAHAHAHA
Like Ernie said …
" … let the information speak for itself , that’s the cool thing about the truth and facts and skill these things stand out "
-David
Andrew, I liken it to a draw-bridge where we can lower it to let our force out, and raise it to let the bastids force fall into the mote
And no worries, my pleasure, and thanks in advance
Originally posted by desertwingchun2
[B]" … even our own arms have to communicate with our own legs, imho." - Hendrick
“Yi Sau Daai Geuk, Yi Geuk Daai Sau - Use Hand Lead Foot, Use Foot Lead Hand” - Mastering Kung Fu - p.211
And you say that’s your opinion? I say that “opinion” came from the Kuen Kuit section of the glossary !!! HAHAHAHA
Like Ernie said …
" … let the information speak for itself , that’s the cool thing about the truth and facts and skill these things stand out "
-David [/B]
It’s easy to paraphrase and plagurize… but real learning and true understanding. That’s the real task at hand.
Keith,
No HFY members came into this discussion until invited by hendrik with his discussion of HFY concepts which he has no knowledge of, hendrik shines this spotlight on himself discussing the nature of Bia jong when he has no expereince to speak of because he can read the words does not mean he has experienced the meaning.
—Does the HFY family think it has the market cornered on the use of the term “Bai Jong?” The term was used often in the YMWCK that I learned. It meant only to be in a “ready position” and did not have all the connotations that the HFY method seems to assign to it. So what Hendrik said about having no need for Bai Jong made perfect sense to me in that context. To me it implied that one can move and react from any position or circumstance and that one does not have to “get set” in order to “go.” Maybe you were just misunderstanding what he was getting at. KPM
Unfortunate that when he is corrected you take offense to this truth.
–Whose “truth”? Did you ever stop to think that it is the way that this “correction” is given that offends people? I will ask for a THIRD time…would GM Gee approve of the spiteful attacks launched by the HFY family on this thread? KPM
Keith
Re: Re: You HFY guys amaze me!
Kieth, don’t make it appear as though you are defending Hendrick.
—Why not? I AM defending Hendrick! The recent HFY personal attacks upon him here were unjustified, in poor taste, and offensive. If you disagree with what he has to say, that state why and present technical information to back it up. KPM
Your posts on the WCML speak for themselves.
–In what way? I have nothing to hide. I, like many others, have a problem accepting most of the HFY legends as factual history when I am not shown the references to back them up. KPM
The two faces of KPM is a subtle rouse that people need to be aware of.
—Huh? That makes no sense at all. Like I said, I’m not hiding anything. What “two faces” are you talking about? What “subtle rouse” do you think I am presenting? KPM
Therefore, “My opinion of [you] has dropped another notch as a result.”
—I could care less. I’m not the one speaking for an entire lineage and making it look bad. It seems rather interesting that the attacks started on Hendrick, and when I came to his support, I end up attacked as well. What I said in support of Hendrick has nothing to do with anything I ever posted on the WCML. I post here to point out that personal attacks are unneeded and out of line…and what do you know…I come under personal attack myself. Seems par for the course. KPM
Keith
KPM,
Don’t concern yourself about what our GM thinks of our behavior. We come from an extremely traditional Kung Fu school. We have our own ways of dealing with our own affairs, and quite frankly, it’s none of your business.
Pulling weeds out of a garden does not constitute bad behavior. On the contrary, letting someone post distorted and slanderous misinformation on our theories and concepts can only be considered disrepectful to our generations past, and our system itself. This is not unique to us. Any KF school that follows the traditional ways would act in the same manner.
And while you may have Bai Jong as a term. The context it was used in, was undoubtably referring to Mastering Kung Fu. And therfore our system.
keith,
The truth that these are not spiteful attacks just kind corrections and I doubt that Grandmaster Gee would have any problem with that.
Rene,
Great summary! Thanks! My limited understanding of opening and closing of the body so far is the expansion and contraction of the body that you mention.
Gentlemen,
We can talk back and forth on personal issues to a greater hurt of our own. This is better settled on private communication. I’m tired fighting. Let continue to roll on the theme of this fascinating thread at least for a little while!
Regards,
PH
Hi Paul,
so, open. close … are not simple monotone vector… they are a resultant… IMHO resultant force intuition or clamping the pillow is needed to understand this.
I am the number one advocate for firm polo pillow clamping. the oh buy a matress too to “see” what kind of resultant force one needs to balance when one does a strike or a move, do your SLT on top of it.
You might think I am joking. No it is not. stand on the matress and do a strike or SLT and see for yourself what “balance” or Zhong means under the amplified of the air matress.
What make you think you can handle your own resultant force combine with others in a dynamic momentum transfer? test it in the matress.
Certainly they dont have this in Shao Lin:
http://216.136.224.156/mattressco/lafoma.html
hahahah, I am the number one, pillow matress train WCner.
Rene, I told you so, Ng Mui is a gal. and WCK was invented by a Gal. the power of WC body is tested with pillow and spring matress.
Oh, I forgot, YSK did practise his strike with cotton as I heard from the oriental, dont know if it is true.
We have come a long way with all those soft stuffs!
Hi Alex,
Without Bai Jong, you have nothing. You have no grounding, no structure, no target, no focus, no awareness of your oponents oncomming energy. Nothing. …
To say that there is no need for Bai Jong is the most idiotic thing a WC person could say imo.
Da-amn, that’s a pretty strong opinion. And you are certainly entitled to it. But I know more that a few people who don’t “bai jong” who certainly don’t have “nothing.” For instance, when I worked out with Ernie and Gary, they did not “bai jong.” But even if I were high on the highest quality crack freshly imported from South America, I would not dream of claiming they had nothing. Hell, my own instructor doesn’t “bai jong”, and I’ve yet see someone who’ve met and felt him personally claim that he has nothing.
Of course, I myself don’t bai jong, so my opinions may be skewed. But if I indeed “have nothing” because I don’t bai jong, then at least I’m in good company.
Just some change,
Regards,
Alan