//youtu.be/ecpBHW94w2Q
Ninjutus fighting in a mma competition is like a boxer going into a TKD tournament and only being allowed to kick, he cant use any of his arsenal, strategy or anything learned through the art. but if you do ninjutsu and want to do this type of competing simply you must train in their ways, and seriously. Real ninjutsu is for self defense and self protection , not an mma match .there are so many differences. For example I have a BB in Ninjutsu, but have been out of it for at least a decade ,and also train in sport fighting. As you can see from the clips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBbjnyuG7hs&index=16&list=UUGC4xThGxe-kEx1JXUs9TcA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WRefA5u5I&index=46&list=UUGC4xThGxe-kEx1JXUs9TcA
I’ve trained in Bujinkan Ninjitsu for a little bit over ten years ago. I did not see anything that implied ninjitsu in that footage. Both fighters were using MMA style.
Granted, in pretty much every YouTube video of martial arts fights/sparring, once the gloves go on, all distinct styles fade away leaving only kickboxing and/or mma techniques.
Furthermore, you can’t judge the validity of an entire style based on one or two examples. Everyone fights, trains, and improve at different rates. You have great CMA fighters and you have poor CMA fighters. You have great MMA fighters and you have terrible ones. Great ninjitsu fighters and terrible ones. So on and so forth.
There is no such thing as Ninjitsu, thankfully there doess not seem to be any shortage of people who like to walk into MMA gyms saying they are ninjas.
[QUOTE=wenshu;1277858]There is no such thing as Ninjitsu, thankfully there doess not seem to be any shortage of people who like to walk into MMA gyms saying they are ninjas.[/QUOTE]
Tell Hatsumi, and Shoto Tanemura .um excuse me Mr. Hatsumi and Tanemurua there is this guy in America he says your 900 year old tradition doesnt exists on a kung fu message board Judo is just a myth too.
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1277860]900 year old tradition[/QUOTE]
ninja please.
I am not only a Ninja, I am an American Ninja living in China
[QUOTE=wenshu;1277858]There is no such thing as Ninjitsu, thankfully there doess not seem to be any shortage of people who like to walk into MMA gyms saying they are ninjas.[/QUOTE]
What you mean to say is that what passes for ninjutsu nowadays has very little (if anything) to do with the ninjutsu training of the Koryu systems.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1277877]What you mean to say is that what passes for ninjutsu nowadays has very little (if anything) to do with the ninjutsu training of the Koryu systems.[/QUOTE]
how would you know, were you around hundreds of years ago to see what they did? Hatsumi, and Tanemura are not some wack job running around in a ski mask and hiding behind bushes in their back yards. Hatsumi is a proven grandmaster of several styles, so even though some organization didnt recognize his ninjutsu styles as legit cause he couldnt provide some scrolls doesnt mean ****. If a style is 900 years old and secret, than it makes sense he wouldnt have the scrolls in his possession. I studied Tang Soo Do for 7 years when I was younger,and had a certificate for a 1 gup rank, but dont have it now. does that mean I didnt learn Tang Soo Do?
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1277881]how would you know, were you around hundreds of years ago to see what they did? Hatsumi, and Tanemura are not some wack job running around in a ski mask and hiding behind bushes in their back yards. Hatsumi is a proven grandmaster of several styles, so even though some organization didnt recognize his ninjutsu styles as legit cause he couldnt provide some scrolls doesnt mean ****. If a style is 900 years old and secret, than it makes sense he wouldnt have the scrolls in his possession. I studied Tang Soo Do for 7 years when I was younger,and had a certificate for a 1 gup rank, but dont have it now. does that mean I didnt learn Tang Soo Do?[/QUOTE]
How exactly is Hatsumi a “proven” grandmaster? Furthermore, how do we know if Hatsumi isn’t simply scamming all of you Ninjutsu followers out of money? I’ve never seen the man fight anyone except his loyal cult worshipers who will do whatever he wants them to do. Put him on the mat with a black belt in Judo or Bjj and he’d get smashed in seconds.
Ninjas were simply samurai who performed espionage. There isn’t even any evidence that actual self-contained “Ninjutsu” styles even existed. The ninjutsu found in Japanese MA are subsets of existing Jujutsu styles. In other words, if you were a samurai warrior, you would study swordsmanship, horse riding, archery, unarmed combat, and ninjutsu.
I can just imagine the Japanese sitting around laughing at all those white guys coming to the Honbu to dress up like ninjas and gain fabricated belt rankings. The very fact that we have tons of 15th dans in the Bujinkan should be a big red flag.
6 of the 9 styles taught by Hatsumi are recognized by the koryu in Japan as legitimate traditional styles. The other stuff I already stated my opinion on. And whether Japanese are laughing about bujinkan people training in traditional martial arts wearing black gis,if only you knew what the average Chinese person thinks of guys,lets say like you that wear traditional Chinese clothes and do kung fu think.Or what modern sport fighters think about people swinging around Chinese swords and staffs these days. The average person in china, specially adults could care less about kung fu these days.So I don’t live my life based on what other people think, if I did I wouldn’t be living and training in China. Or I would be living in china[not studying kung fu] but would be wearing a dark blue suit and collared shirt have a government regulated square haircut, play badminton and watch women’s drama shows in my free time
As far as hatsumi fighting anyone that does not make the tradition legit or not. Maybe it does by modern MMJ standers, but by the ninja tradition was not built to be a competitive art. and you got your history little confused as well.
[QUOTE=BigPandaBear;1277894]How exactly is Hatsumi a “proven” grandmaster? Furthermore, how do we know if Hatsumi isn’t simply scamming all of you Ninjutsu followers out of money? I’ve never seen the man fight anyone except his loyal cult worshipers who will do whatever he wants them to do. Put him on the mat with a black belt in Judo or Bjj and he’d get smashed in seconds.[/QUOTE]
With all due respect, I’m not entirely sure that’s a fair assessment. With that logic, the same can be said for almost every grandmaster and/or instructor.
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1277898]6 of the 9 styles taught by Hatsumi are recognized by the koryu in Japan as legitimate traditional styles.[/quote]
And those styles are nothing more than Jujutsu styles. There’s nothing distinctly “Ninja” about them.
The other stuff I already stated my opinion on. And whether Japanese are laughing about bujinkan people training in traditional martial arts wearing black gis,if only you knew what the average Chinese person thinks of guys,lets say like you that wear traditional Chinese clothes and do kung fu think.Or what modern sport fighters think about people swinging around Chinese swords and staffs these days. The average person in china, specially adults could care less about kung fu these days.So I don’t live my life based on what other people think, if I did I wouldn’t be living and training in China. Or I would be living in china[not studying kung fu] but would be wearing a dark blue suit and collared shirt have a government regulated square haircut, play badminton and watch women’s drama shows in my free time
What makes you think I’m a Kung Fu practitioner?
As far as hatsumi fighting anyone that does not make the tradition legit or not. Maybe it does by modern MMJ standers, but by the ninja tradition was not built to be a competitive art. and you got your history little confused as well.
Then what’s the point of it? Ninjas get their clock cleaned by legit martial arts practitioners (because they don’t spar), and there’s no use in modern society for feudal era Japanese spies.
I guess it’s fun to play pretend Ninja warrior right?
[QUOTE=Wuxia007;1277900]With all due respect, I’m not entirely sure that’s a fair assessment. With that logic, the same can be said for almost every grandmaster and/or instructor.[/QUOTE]
Not really. The founder of Judo produced students who decimated the martial art establishment in Japan. The founders of Bjj produced students who decimated the martial art establishment in the 90’s.
What did the students of Hatsumi do?
So if Grandmaster Chen Xiaowang students don’t decimate other style’s students guess he isn’t a grand master of Taijiquan, and if William Cheung is student’s don’t decimate of style’s student ,he isn’t a grandmaster of wing chun,this conversation is silly.
And what kind of sick weirdo hangs out on a kung fu message board and doesn’t even do kung fu;] just kidding ,but really you got way too much free time if that is the case. Already discussed the whole sport/self defense thing ,over and over
here are some constructive ways you can spend your free time, other than worrying about what traditional martial art people like and what color gi they wear. 1# the library, it’s quiet relaxing , can read and learn something new. Most of all it is free. 2# depending on what the climate is like where you live, take a walk. good cardio vascular exercise, relieves stress, and again won’t cost you a dime. 3# write a book. Just get a pen and some paper, think of an idea no one has done before, and start writing.
THAT WAS NOT NINJITSU!!! Everyone knows that Ninjitsu fights like this:
pssst.
All “ninja” styles are pretty much made up in the last 50 years or so.
Anyone who actually was a ninja in samurai controlled japan would have learned any number of different things as far as how to kill and how to commit subterfuge goes.
Oh sure, there are some who will point to old texts and legends etc, but there really never was any singular ninja art / style. Not historically speaking anyway. I mean, these people were assassins who quite often did dirty deeds that samurai could not do because of their being bound by code. IE: A Samurai could not openly kill his master. So they’d get Ninja to do it.
Fascinating the variety of methods used. But with the Samurai waving “so long Japan” so too went the Ninja who served them in their nefarious wants.
Ninja is a state of mind.
For both side of the argument it is difficult to prove one way or the other,. There are those that say Ninja didn’t do this and that a long time ago and those {that actually train in the art] that say they do. Who knows for sure? Was anyone on this message board in ancient Japan at the time of the historical ninja?
For me it is simple, Masaaki Hatsumi is a well know master of 6 historically proven authentic Japanese styles, he learned them from To****sugu Takamatsu. A grandmaster of 6 traditional styles wouldn’t need to add three fake ninja ryus to his curriculum. And if you have actually trained in the Bujinkan for any amount of time you can feel the authenticness of such style. Beside creating a time machine and traveling back in time there would be no way to be 100% sure the ninja methods Hatsumi or his teacher Takamatsu taught him were actually done by the ninja, but based on the fact that Hatsumi is teaching 6 proven authentic Japanese traditional arts mixed in with three ninja ryus is enough to convince me. There is a lot more proof here that the Ninja styles are authentic than the latter , someone saying hey the ninja styles are fake
Now do these techniques work in modern time? I have used the methods taught in Ninjutsu several times to defend myself as well as avoid danger. And in the ever changing times ,who knows we might need to use such skills as being able to move in the dark, move silently and survive in the wilderness, not to mention first aid and using various object as improvised weapons.