Can anyone give me some info on the MA, or recomend a website?..NIT ashida kim! 
e-budo.com has forums devoted to this, but theyâve been down recentlyâŚ
K. Mark Hoover
Read âNinjutsu: History and Traditionâ by Masaaki Hatsumi.
Iron
the martial art favoured by the ninja that still exists today is called ninpo.
ninjutsu in itself is a conglamoration of different things ranging from a variety of martial arts to ways of deception and stealth and obscure methods of assasination.
the ninja basically disappeared with the samurai class (excuse the pun). And the whole idea was revived for the sake of the almighty dollar.
most of whatâs aroung today is borrowed form other arts and given new names. Heck, Iâve even seen âNinja Iron Bodyâ as a book. I donât even think they bothered to change the name from Nei Gong in that book. yeesh, do they have no shame? hahahahahaha.
peace
Kung Lek
The âNinjaâ name was cashed in on in the 80âs. Everyone on every block was adding âninjaâ to the title of their MA school to attract customers. Why? Because ninjas were cool!
This lead to a whole slew of fakes and frauds. Can you say Ashida Kim? What about Frank Dux? Ronald Duncan? These guys make money off people who donât know any better.
Iron
I assume this is on topic enough for me to not get flamed.
I think I may have explain this here before once, but Iâll say it again in case Iâm thinking of another forum.
Ashida Kim, Ronald Duncan, and others all claim to be âKoga.â Read on:
In the 60âs, the last remaining Koga grand master, Fujita, died in a car accident with his top 2 or 3 students. He did not leave an heir, he did not really train anyone else. For the most part, Koga ryu ninjutsu died on that day.
Apparently, people like Ashida Kim heard of this and decided to claim Koga lineage for themselves. After all, who could challenge them if there were no Koga?
Now, Ashida will tell you that he is Koga, but he wonât give you the name of his teacher. Well, actually heâll say âShendaiâ who is some code name for his teacher because hs real name is a secret, and also heâll say Counte Dante, who used to advertise on the back of comic books in the 70âs. Now, chances are âShendaiâ does not exist, and Counte Dante was definately NOT a ninja.
Ashida has also said to me, on one occasion (on his message board, but the message has subsequently been erased. I may have a saved copy of it somewhere), that (this is paraphrased), âif one person learns one technique in an art, he is able to say that he teaches that art.â
Thatâs crap if I ever heard it. That means if I learn a Taekwondo kick, I am fully able to legitimately say that âI teach Taekwondo.â This quote is indicitave of Ashidaâs intelligence.
Additionally, Ashida cannot âproveâ his Koga lineage in any way. He will not divulge the names of any documented Koga teachers he has studied with (because they are all "secret). I beleve he claims to have scrolls of Koga, but he wonât show them to any one.
Take Hatsumi, on the other hand. He has Togakure scrolls. Japanâs government recognizes him as a legit ninjutsu grandmaster. Which one sounds more legit to you?
Perhaps Ashidaâs most fatal mistake was in the chosing of his pen name. As you may know, Ashida is a Japanese name and Kim is a Korean last name. Ashida Kim is caucasion, no less. When asked about this, he says âthere are many males named Kim.â That doesnât even answer the question! So, in Christopher Hunter (thatâs his real name)'s haste to choose an Asian sounding alias (and therefore sell more books by appearing more legit), he messed up.
To top it all off, all of the so called âkogaâ masters seem to back each other up. Ashida says Dux is legit, who says Ronald Duncan is legit, who says Tew is legit, who says Hoshino is legit, and the list goes on. One can only assume it is to protect the veil of fraud. After all, if Ashida were to say âRonald Duncan the Koga ninjutsu guy is a fraud! There is no Koga!â that wouldnât make him look very good either, as he claims to teach Koga as well.
So in conclusion, books by Hatsumi and Hayes (one of his students) are good.
IHAK
âIf Ashida wished you to know his real name, I am sure he would write to you and tell you himself.â --Danny Sainty
âSo, you supposed martial artists, what are you trining for? Who are you training to fight? Apparently no one. Because even in a hypothetical situation, you puss out, Ha! Ha!â --Ashida Kim
You can pile on Ashida all you want, but ya better lay off Count Dante! He was just too cool for words. I mean, anybody who appeared in the classified ads of a comic book has to have something going for him, right? 
K. Mark Hoover
So what do u guys think about the art itself? i mean is it legit or are there just to many frauds and would it help me in real life situations or would i be wasting my time training in it?
Personally, I think there is an extremely high noise-to-signal ratio when it comes to this art; youâre going to have to look long and hard to find someone legitimate to teach it, IMO. But if you succeed it should be fun.
K. Mark Hoover
Check this out:
http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~jimgould/
You can also check out books by Hatsumi, and Hayes, There are a few other sites out there as well. I have heard that there are still some Ninjutsu schools that have not come forward to reveal themselves, the Katori Shinto Ryu, for example, has only recently come forward(I got that From D. Craigâs Jiu-Jitsu book). But Hatsumi is a good place to start. Just remember to be very discriminating about anyone and anything claiming to be ninja since it is commonly used to make a personâs school seem better/ get more money.
Good luck.
-Z
âThe thorn pricks only those who would harm the rose.â
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=â-1â>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zen_celt:
I have heard that there are still some Ninjutsu schools that have not come forward to reveal themselves, the Katori Shinto Ryu, for example, has only recently come forward
[/quote]
Be EXTREMELY careful of schools claiming to be âjust coming forewardâ now. Ashida Kim âjust came forwardâ in the early 80âs.
Good luck though, ninjutsu is cool.
Iron
"Now why the **** would you censor âd.ork?â
Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01
Are you implying?
That ninjutsu no longer exists?
Kung LekâŚninjutsu doesnât really exist? then what do I study? authentic Bujinkan Taijutsu.., headed by Hatsumi and very much true to the essence of the nine schools that comprise it.Iâm no assassin, but I certainly learn all ranges of unarmed combat and weaponry.
There are ninjutsu components to some traditional samurai jujutsu schools yes, but none taught as an entire system. The Bujinkan remains the ultimate source of information on the subject.
Read Hatsumiâs books, donât really bother with Hayes.
P.S- It is very legitimate..provided you have the right instructor.
Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..
hey there rolling elbow, did you actually read what I posted or are you going off emotionally?
peace
Kung Lek
Kung Lek said: âthe ninja basically disappeared with the samurai class (excuse the pun). And the whole idea was revived for the sake of the almighty dollar.â
I have no idea how he could have misinterpreted your perfectly innocent statement, Kung Lek.
:rolleyes:
Ok, ok, that might have been out of contextâŚbut Iâm betting that was the part he took exception with.
Iron Fist:
Youâre right, people need to be extremely discriminating when it comes to researching ninjutsu. The reason I used the Katori Shinto Ryu in my post was to highlight the fact that we know little about the ninja as a whole. I know next to nothing about this school but as it was used in D. Craigâs jujitsu book, I figured it couldnât be that bad. The fact is, that which we call ninjutsu was created out of a clanâs need to survive against the military might of warring daimyos. Since their focus was on survival and not fame, Iâm willing to bet that there are styles of ninjutsu still unknown to the general public. After all, Iâm sure there are secrets and sects within the ninja history that even Hatsumi Soke will not discuss in public and may not even be aware of. The whole ninja legend has been built on mystery and misinformation. It is this fact that allows fakers like Kim to exist. There are probably styles and groups of fighting systems still unknown the world over but the reason the ninja are a used so much for selling a school is because they are high up in media consciousness and people like the legend behind them. Either way, a person looking for instruction in MA in general, and ninjutsu in particular, needs to be highly discriminating and critical when seeking a school.
-Z
âThe thorn pricks only those who would harm the rose.â
Excellent post, zen_celt.
Speaking of misinformation, and just so everyone here knows, ninja did NOT use straight swords like in the movies.
Iron
"Now why the **** would you censor âd.ork?â
Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01
******, Ironfist, you have ruined my life. As a 15 year old back in the 80s, I got me one of those Ninjato straight bladed swords. Man, I was cool, and the envy of my friends.
You mean I cant use the scabbard to boost myself up to windows, use it as a blowpipe, and conceal powder and magic dust in it? Day-am.
Actually, one of the MA magazines at the time repeated what youd said, then another said that the reason they had straightbladed swords were that they didnt have access to superior samurai weapons, so had to make their own, clumsy copies. It reckoned that if you were an assassin, an unsharpened 3 foot long lump of metal on the back of someones head would pretty much do the job just as well as a well-honed katana, which I wouldnât necessarily disagree with. 
Then again, if the ninja families were so rich from the contracts they carried out, they should have been able to afford the best weapons and tools.
The chalice from the palace has the pellet with the poison,
The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!
Peace and love Kung Lek!
I think i am going off emtionally lol ..i completely misread that.. 
Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..
good thread, this is. Ninpo tajutsu,
hey Rolling boy! Do u train âninjaâ weapons like throwing knifes/stars and such? or is that just fake?
~K~
âmaybe not in combat.. but think of the chicks man, the chicks!â â someone on the subject of back-flips in combat â
In old Japan, carrying a straight blade would definately have stuck out. âHey look everyone, thereâs a ninja!â
Then again, if the ninja families were so rich from the contracts they carried out, they should have been able to afford the best weapons and tools.
Ninjas werenât really hired assassins, so I doubt they carried out contracts.
Iron
"Now why the **** would you censor âd.ork?â
Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01