After reading the thread about Yip Mans first disciple and having rene, kj, and nat talk about Lun Gai and the phonex eye fist, I started to wonder if he only taught that in fatsan or if he also taught the hong kong students how to use it to? Did he take it out of the system when he started teaching in hong kong or something? If he taught it in fatsan, then what is the purpose or use of it?
ot:
****, how the hell did everybody get the cuss words to show up in their posts on another thread? **** it!!:mad:
If you get someone to step on you with bare feet and then step on you with a pair of high heels - the heels hurt.
The same force is concentrated over a smaller area of impact.
The single protruding knuckle of the pheonix eye works on the same principle. The impact force of a punch concentrated over a smaller area. This concentrated force is then aimed at vunerable targets.
I have forgotten the number of knuckle size bruises I have received from training with these guys - on a down side the strikes are painful as they whip in but dont really effect or attack my structure - I suppose if i caught one in the eye socket or adams apple my structure becomes a little irrelevent.
I took a pheonix punch to the eye socket about 2 months ago just lightly fighting with my brothe and i couldn’t open my eye for about an hour. its definatly a good strike if you get a good target.
I was told at a sam kwok seminar that ip man didn’t teach it when in hong kong, im not entilerly sure why bit i think its because he didn’t want foerigners to know the entire system and this was just another thing he left out.
Wouldn’t matter much, it’s used in several other styles, Xingyi being one example, including one called “Phoenix Eye Fist”. Hardly a closely guarded secret.
According to an article by Frearson sifu on Lun Gai sifu, Yip Man didn’t teach the Fong Ngan Choi (Phoenix Eye Fist) at all but just before leaving for HK, told his students to use it.
I believe Leung Ting sifu maintains it actually came from another, non-WCK source (a book on so-called Soft Style Fighting?), while a student of Wang Kiu sifu once mentioned that Wang, originally a Southern Mantis practitioner, had used it, Yip Man sifu had taken a liking to it, and incorporated it into his WCK.
Beyond the Yip Man branch, the Gulao village teachings of Leung Jan sifu include the (sometimes frequent) use of Pheonix Eye as well, and I believe it’s found in the Cho branch, and perhaps others.
Yes! In Leung Jan’s Koo Lo teaching the Foo Ngon was taught, but according to the Fung’s, this was not part of his original art and something he added in in Koo Lo. If you look at both students of Wong Wah Bo (Fok Bo Chuen/Leung Jan) you will see that the Foo Ngon Choi was not traditionally part of his teaching.
The only mention of Yip Man and the phoenix eye I have ever heard Sam Kwok mention was a segment in the dummy where Yip Man removed the first because he felt it was to dangerous to teach publicly.This was many years ago so maybe I heard wrong.This story was from Yip chun I believe.
My first WC teacher taught the phoenix eye to me early on.His background was Jui Wan and Moy Yat.I think Yip Man probably mentioned it but didnt spend much time teaching it. Just a guess based on circumstantial anecdotes.
The problem with this and all other stories about Yip Man the ones telling the stories werent there and the ones there dont tell them anymore because of potential conflicts or they are dead.
while a student of Wang Kiu sifu once mentioned that Wang, originally a Southern Mantis practitioner, had used it, Yip Man sifu had taken a liking to it, and incorporated it into his WCK.
Sounds self serving of WK. How would Wang Kiu know what Yip Man taught others and when?. The phoenix eye is quite common in southern fists-though the formation and delivery systems can vary.
IMO of course.
It’s practically all we use in SPM. I’m still not confident enough in my skill to use it for real as of now. If forced to fight, I’d more likely use a closed fist, or, more likely, a palm. Or a knee kick. Or if the dude got past my gates, I’d go pressure points. I dunno. Why did I change the gist of this thread? I dunno. Guess I’m still not awake…
I am probably not awake either-it’s all Vishnu’s dream.
In any case who do you study SPM with?
While PE is pretty everpresent in SPM it has other goodies too.
All in good time in both arts it seems..
The PE in each art is a little different from each other and ofcourse the delivery platforms are quite different.
I posted this earlier but must have pressed the wrong
belly button in Vishnu’s dream.
Yuanfen
Your quite right sam kwok wasn’t there and i have no other reason to believe him than theres no good reason for him to lie, i wasn’t going to ask him how he knew that cos it’s a bit cheeky IMO. at the end of the day it makes no difference whatsoever.
I also heard (not sure where) that a lot of the knife form teaches how to perform the PE correctly, i think its the way you hold the knifes. does anyone know if this is true?
ginger fist is another hand formation common to several southern fists. Again, those who use it in wc do so froma wing chun body mechanics - not spm. In close encounters of the worst kind- it
is a jewel. Folks who spar with gloves miss the heavenly glories of the human hand and treat it like a piece of lead. Argh.
Fella, these guys you train with should wear regular shoes 
What are the target areas on an opponent when using the GF?
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