Yip Mans student Lun Gai uses the Phoenix eye fist and the Phoenix Eye Fist is also shown in K.T. Chao s books Secret Techniques of Wing Chun it seems K.T. Chao uses the Phoenix Eye Fist so did he learn it from his sifu Yip Man ? So I wonder if Yip Man used the Phoenix Eye Fist ?
The Sil Lim Tao form taught to a lot of his students by Yip Man did contain the Phoenix Eye punch. However, since then, the punch has been left out from the form and only taught to senior students because of skill maturity. A phoenix eye punch incorrectly delivered can easily result in really serious injury to either the opponent or the practitioner himself. And so these days, it will not come as a surprise to see this technique withheld a bit.
It was taught to William Cheung by Yip Man and it is still taught in TWC.
I have it in both Biu Gee and Mok yan Jong forms. (Fong’s lineage)
(But as Rene said so well: Just a different bit on the drill!..) 
Hi,
the Phoenix Eye punch is principally shown in the third form, biu tze, and then (in some kwoon) it was introduced in the other sets… Lun Kai sifu said that he learnt it from GGM Ip Man in fatshan, but if u can see all the sets performed by Lun Kai u could notice that there r a lot of differences from the sets performed & teached by Ip Man in Hong Kong…
is the punch used like the normal straight punch except with the protruding knuckle or is the wrist twisted? Also, is there any specific changes in breathing or footwork when using the phoenix eye punch? are there specific target areas one aims for (other than head)?
thnx
The punch is the normal straight punch without twisting or bending the wrist.We don’t “aim” with the index finger nuckle. It does it’s job at impact anyway.
Did Yip Man Use The Phoenix Eye Fist ?
He sure did.
Every time he got in a lift, to press that button for the top floor.
Seriously, Phil R is of course correct about TWC. GM Cheung has a series of exercises to develop the strength in that hand shape.
The Phoenix Eye is used in all three forms in our style which is Foshan Wing Chun of the Master Lun Kai lineage but I must say I have never been very comfortable with it I use it in the forms but very rarely in application.
Lee
Originally posted by l@zylee
The Phoenix Eye is used in all three forms in our style which is Foshan Wing Chun of the Master Lun Kai lineage but I must say I have never been very comfortable with it I use it in the forms but very rarely in application.
Hey Lee,
Just sent you a PM.
Beware of the rising phoenix- and the eye of the storm.
Seriously- forget the phoenix- it can get you into trouble.
Originally posted by yuanfen
[B]Beware of the rising phoenix- and the eye of the storm.
Seriously- forget the phoenix- it can get you into trouble. [/B]
Just asking out of curiosity!.. What kind of troubles?..
Hurted index knucle or excessive use of force?..
Old Jong asks:Just asking out of curiosity!.. What kind of troubles?..
Hurted index knucle or excessive use of force?..
Possible problems-
-
wrong formation you hurt your fist or finger.
-
underdeveloped delivery system, including timing- you get blocked
and/or countered. And- you get the other guy madder than hell.
3, Done right- but in the wrong legal context-you need a lawyer and possible bond money.
4,Ethically misused-god or karma will catch up with you. Socrates- immorality runs fatser than death.
But except for that- bon voyage!
PS/Old Jong tomorrow is my birthday and my wing chun students are taking me out tonight, one son and grandson(master of ground technique) tomorrow night,
and another son saturday night. The Phoenix does rise.
Hey Joy!..
Have a good time and …Happy birthday!
All the best to you.
happy birthday and have a great day 
dawood
Joy… right on the money !!!
And Happy Birthday !
thanks NTC, Old jong dawood and others on the other thread.
Lets not get overboard- I am still the same cantankerous fella.
Next life, I will try better.
Hello,
There is one thing that is jumping out at me on this topic. Its the question being raised as to if someone should use it or not? My thoughts are one should not think about if he will be using a Foo Ngon or a Yat Jee or a Charp Choi or any other shape. This stuff is designed to just come out and when someone reacts they should not decide on what to use as that would go against the natural way of functioning.
I understand some of the pro’s and con’s going on and there would certainly be pro’s and con’s in anything but if we think in a fight we will probally be kissing the concrete very fast.
Just my thoughts!
Regards,
Jim- i dont think anyone is suggesting- pausing and thinking
in the midst of a crisis.
Hello Joy!
Jim- i dont think anyone is suggesting- pausing and thinking
in the midst of a crisis.
Understood but!
This is basically what I heard in what was written:
I have it but wont use it unless I was an emergency or or something like, I have it but its too dangerous etc..
If you do Kung Fu that truly involves the Foo Ngon (or any tool) then like it or not you will have to either use it in reality (as in any “real” heated situation as your mind will register as Cricis and react) or its not really built into your natural Kung Fu.
A lot of people say: We have foo ngon but in reality it is not part of their natural arts boxing other being just this little golden name to say “I have it to!”
For any one of our tools to be used spontaneosly, or in any natural way, they must be a daily/regular part of our training routine. If we Sun Punch 100 times per day (along with our other stuff) and Sun Punch the wall bag 100 times per day then the Sun Punch will work naturally. Yet, if we Sun Punch the bulk of the time and then occassionally do a few Foo Ngon applications or training (as it involves a different fist formation which is odd to the other naturally trained Sun formation) then it just wont come out naturally. But! If it was equally trained then you would not be able to control when or where you would use it as it would just react naturally.
So, do those of you that have the Foo Ngon in the Biu Jee, or somewhere in your three sets (or maybe in all of them), take this move out and work it as much as the Sun Punch (or any other method you practice regularly) or do you just practice it in the forms and do the occassion Foo Ngon development you hear a lot about?
I guess the moral of all that babbling mush is:
If it is not part of the norm WC for you then dont waste your time with it!
If it is, then you cannot control what you do when reacting!
Atleast thats what I believe.
Regards,