Can anybody tell me what “The secrets of phoenix eye fist kung-fu” is about?
Thanks
i thought it was just a fist that was in allot of kf styles.
i didn’t even know there was an entire art dedicated to it.
What’s up Shaolinsheep. Click on the link and you’ll find alittle of info: http://www.dragonslist.com/articles/styles/index.php?id=28
Yeah, I didn’t know it was an entire style either. I thought the phoenix eye (though we don’t call it that in TKD) is just a hand formation where you make a fist with the index finger knuckle sticking out. Am I right about that? I am trying to learn the names of more techniques that are in kung fu.
that’d be the fist.
Phoenix Eye fist is a Southern system that is mainly taught in Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia. Its a Hakka system with close ties to Southern Mantis, and if i’m right Shantung Black Tiger
Its main focus is to attack the accupunture-accupressure points, the heart bridge ect… causing stagnation of the blood, blood clotting and internal hemorrhage
Sounds dangerous.
Thank you all for your help!!!
I do have the book “Secrets of phoenix eye fist kung-fu”.
The style uses mostly or only phoenix eye fist for striking (major targets being temples,eyes,throat,possibly solar plexus and groin+pressure points,this fist is excellent for pressure points)
Phoenix eye fist is an offence art which always likes to strike first,and rather runs than fights against weapons.
It uses riding and hanging riding horse stance and some strange ones.
It is a very rare and complicated art (as some say) Is called chuka shaolin in chinese,and is created by two women.
There are at least two important books done on this subject (“secrets” and another one by Donn Draeger and some chinese fellow,I don´t remember the name,it was probably “phoenix eye fist kung-fu”)
It uses kicks (such as lightning kick) to knees and groin.
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If you ask around the Hakka stylists (who bother to give you an answer) you’ll find that in the SPM camp at least, there is some scepticism against that system. In part this is due to its gepgraphical location (Malaysia) in part because Hakka systems (can) indulge in unproductive slagging off and posturing against one another.
The trouble with rare arts is that you really need to find an accomplishe dpractitioner to get any real flavour for them.
From what I know (the little that is) the system is likely to be a syncretism of Hakka roots, developed locally (Malaysia) into the named art. Chukka may be a corruption (spelling/pronounciation) of Chu-Gar, but, others would need to comment on that as it isn’t my Pai.
There is great diversity of practice, form and overall structure within (say) SPM and this has caused a lot of nonsense over the yearsd. Thankfully, there are real signs that this is beginning to change. the diversity between other Hakka arts and Chukka may in the end be no greater than that which exists between those other hakka systems themselves, or indeed, within those systems between Pai and Sub-Pai.
The Fung-an Phoenix eye fist is a speciality hand of the Hakka arts, although found in other systems, it is a trademark of Hakka Kung-Fu and arguably more developed perhaps as a result.
Steve Richards.
hakka
steven,
hi mate, i heard that SPM came from bak mei could you shed some light on this? maybe it has similarites same as ykm and dragon, all come from hakka!
I read that this monk named Sam Dart created SPM to beat the sh*t out of this other monk who bullied him all the time. The other monk supposedly did Bak Mei which made him way more powerful than Sam Dart so he had to make a style that could defeat it. I’m not saying which is better because they have too many similarities for someone to really tell but thats the history i read.
The technique I mentioned earlier is not just a fist for a punch. Part of your knuckle of the index finger juts out and is supported by your thumb and other fingers. You use this very small striking point to strike small pressure points.
The phoenix eye fist is used in WC chain punches when you get advanced…
Hi again Fierce ‘T’ - old friend,
All martial arts Pai have ‘Origin Myths’ and many of then directly contradict one-another. On the Private SPM forum - we allow all such stories to be ‘true’ - realtively speakin, accepted as the transmission culturally of a specific legitimising narrative.
That way, we all get along a lot better;)
The ‘founder’ of Jook-Lum was in such accounts ‘Hung-Mei’ (Red Eyebrow) and he was allegedly a junior Monk to Bak-Mei. Again, allegedly, Hung-Mei developed his Hakka Tong-Long system to overcome his elder ‘Brother’. No point in developing the ‘story’ further as its obvious which directions the two traditions in question would go.
Re Phoenix-eye fist (Mr Nunchaku),
In Hakka Tong-Long (and undoubtably in other Hakka arts too) there is much more variation in the use of this fist than may be implied simply by focussing on the extended middle knuckle of the index finger.
The ‘fist formation’ is used in the delivery of Gau-Choi hammer fist strikes with the hypothenar emminece (edge of palm), the fist itself is used in hook punches as well as straight punches, the angle and orintaion of the fist and the wrist realtive to the target varies greatly. the distance varies too, right down to contact hits, as part of single or multiple strike combinations.
The postion of the thumb varies and may be used to add acceleration to the extending knuckle ‘mid-flight’. The ‘mounted thumb’ joint is also used as a contact or pressure point hit, making this fist formation very versatile indeed.
Nichiren,
I’ve studied Wing-Chun on and off over the last 30 years, and can say that teh use of the Phoenox-Eye fist depends upon lineage, and that where it is used it is still relatively basic compared to Hakka arts - with all respect to Wing-Chun as a system of course.
Regards,
Steve.
I’ve studied Wing-Chun on and off over the last 30 years, and can say that teh use of the Phoenox-Eye fist depends upon lineage, and that where it is used it is still relatively basic compared to Hakka arts - with all respect to Wing-Chun as a system of course
Steve.
Comments limited to wing chun. Good wing chun taught in depth
by knowledgeable teachers to dedicated students has many
“instruments” including phoenix eyes. But the very fast spreading of fairly incomplete wing chun results in many incomplete generalizations about what the art does or doesnt do.
Hello Yuan,
I thought the remark about Wing-Chun would get you on thread.
You should know by now I don’t ‘dis’ that art, and, that notwithstanding your very accurate reamrks, I have had access to a number of good lineages including Yip-Chun’s - Yip-Man’s Son.
I take it that we are in general agrement, or do you think that Wing-Chuns use of the Fung-An-Choi compares with that in Hakka arts?
Best Regards,
Steve.
phoenix eye
We use the Phoenix Eye as the primary fist in Fukien Bai He. I understand its in alot of southern styles as well, didnt’ know it was a part of wing chun.
Reap
Steve:
I debated whether to pick up on your reference to wing chun.
But when the art I love is involved- it is problematic because I am
caught (mo duk)between the respect for the art and referring to individual
practitioners. On the latter one practitioner you referred to is from the
next generation after the sons. The older son now has disassociated himself from the practitioner and now the latter is involved with the second son. Neither son began learning wing chun till sometime after 62 when they emigrated from the PRC.
The father had just about closed his hands by then. Follow up instruction was given by some of the father’s students.
Various proper and disciplined and trained different gee uses were known to Leung Jan and Yip Man and taught to some but not all students. The usages are not trivial.
I cannot compare with varieties of Hakka usage-because i do not
overreach with cross style comparisons. I listen to what other stylists have to say about what they do. But good usage of hand joints is
alive and well in good wing chun- the chain stores in the art–well that is not my world..