i definitely believe that there are a few core forms, and by concentrating on them you could become very good.
BUT, as i was chosen as a bai see by my sifu, i must know ALL of the forms in our system well enough to be able to pass on the entire system to my students, and fulfill my sifus dying wish.
there are certain forms that i practise more than others, not necessarily the high levels, but ones that suit my body & strengths.
i like:-
ly jik bo (a bit different to the bak mei version)
sek see kuen (very similar to bak mei original version)
sup jee kuen
ying ching (dynamic tension / iron body)
sarm mun b’qua
luk hup kuen
say mun b’qua
sarm mun kuen
ying jow ling kui
gou bo toi
sup batt more kui
meng fu chut lam
ng ying kuen
the 3 internal forms
erm - didnt realise i had so many favourites
forms i dont like as much (but still practise):-
tung jee kuen (1st level - sick of teaching it)
dai sut kuen (ground fighting & lots of jumping & falling techs)
okay - so i LIKE my system
my fav. weapon forms by the way are fore day chin chi pa (tiger fork) & the long pole, bench, + more.
Hi,
I don’t think whether you use phoenix eye or regular fist in Sup Ji would make that particular version any different or more true than the other. Unless it looks completely different.
The last time I have seen KMF was about 20yrs ago(lol…)I didn’t see him do sup ji, but saw him do 18 hands. Extremly powerful sifu, at least back then. I saw his students do sup ji. Maybe i will visit him, since iam in NYC.
I have also seen Cheung Bing Lum about 5yrs.ago, his sup ji is also a little different. Form the one i have seen. He does not jump back at all, in his form; but goes into a immediate strike after biu ji. For a 70 yr sifu, he is very agile and powerful.
It seem that most techers do form a little different. That is why i look to the core principles of Pak Mei style; TTFC, aggresiveness, explosive power, correct developement of “jing”, etc…
For instance one cannot say to be bak mei practitioner when they do form and energy looks like wing chun, dragon, or tsai li fo.
I hope one day the root of all the short hand systems becomes a little more clear with time.
I wonder about Sup Luk Dong and Jek Bo being the same root. It seems to me that Bo Bo Toy is a bit closer in the stepping, and techniques. I was told that CLC based Jek Bo on this exercise.
Hmmm…think I might start a new thread on the differences between the two styles
Welcome to the discussion. Yes I do have video as well as pictures of the fights. We have another fight set up for them this month after having December and January off so it promises to be interesting. You can email me if you like and are interested in seeing the video. I can also email you some pics keeping in mind they take a while to download. I’m going to very soon be putting up a page where I’m going to keep updated photos of the fights and make video available as well. I’ll keep you posted.
I trained under Dr.YQ Wong in the 80’s when there was not so much information on the Bai Mei System flying through cyber space.I must say I am thrilled to death to see so much info on this system.I have studied Wing Tsun under Emin Boztepe in recent years which seems to differ from its WC brothers in many aspects.Getting back to White Eyebrow,I still consider Dr. Wong my first Sifu and Bai Mei still runs strong in my blood and spirit.I had the honor of attending a visit a few months ago to Dr. Wong’s school by a Bai Mei Elder (5th Gen.,Wong is 6th,I am 7th)from New York,not the Kwong or MLK? (Video Guy) which seemed to be shuned by the elders,who knows,I don’t know the whole story and don’t speak chinise.While I studied the system the forms I learned are as follows(I don’t know the chinise names) Salman,Flower,Short Cross,Staff,Straight Foward,Tiger Fork,Nine Step Push and started on a internal salman and Mor Que when I got lazy,starting having babies and took a 4 year break from working out,I overheard one of the elders talking about a form that comes I belive after the form five elements called “13 or 9 deamons crossing the bridge”???,anyone heard of this one?,thanks for any info on this
welcome aboard, its great when we get a good topic flowing, then usually it blows up.
i have seen dr wongs site, its has some good info there. maybe the form you have is called sup batt mor kuil 18 devil bridge.
Thanks for jarring my memory Tiger,Kull talked about a Cheung Bing lum,I belive he was the elder I talked about in my last posting,I am sure his last name is Cheung and him and a few of his long time students came down from NY,it was his top student that I asked what form is taught after “five elements” and his response was the “deamons” pattern,my understanding is that “mor que” is a seperate form that is taught after “internal salman” and “nine step push”,perhaps “mor que” and the “deamon” are one in the same,perhaps I misunderstood him or he misunderstood me,one thing is for sure…I need to study up on my Chinise speaking abilitys!,lol,getting to your question about the form “Salman”,it was the first form I learned and I think(I know it is a external form) it comes from the Lee family style and there are other external forms from differant systems that GM Cheung Li Cheng incorperated into the “White Eyebrow Style”,it is my understanding that he kept the forms from other systems he thought useful and modified them to keep with his newly found “emei shoalin” which he re-named “White Eyebrow fist” in honor of the founding Monk,this is only my understanding and I’m sure I’ve missed out on some minor details,On the Tai-Chi question,yes,he does teach Tai-Chi,I am far from being a expert in this field and always thought that he taught “Yang Style” but when Cheung came down from NY he did “Chen Style” which looked like Dr. Wong’s Tai-Chi,Hmmmm,I’ll have to ask him next time I see him,by the way I got to cross hands with Cheung which started out as Tai-Chi pushing hands and I switched it to a Wind Tsun type chi-sau,whops!,that guy knew chi-sau too!!,after about a minute of that I guess he got bored because all I could think was "WOW!,that duds in his seventies as I flew through the air!,lol,keep un coming guys,this is getting fun!
My mistake Kull,talked to Wong yesterday and got his full name.My spelling of his name will be wrong,but maybe you can make some sense of it.Cheung Seur Dor,I’va got to go to Wong’s for some punchure treatment so I’ll get more details for ya latter
Ok sorry about not having all of the facts straight,now I do,Cheung Lum and Cheung Beng Fatt were CLC’s two sons.In 1982 Dr.Wong tried to get a visa for Cheung Beng Fatt(who was one of his teachers,the other being Ng Nam King).His visa was refused,why I don’t know,he has passed away since.Ok,the guy from New York is Chin Dor(Cantonese name).He was a student of Chang Lai Chuen.KMF(who was a barber at that time) was first introduced to CLC by Chin Dor,KMF calls Chin Dor “Great Grand Uncle”,he is in his 70s and moves like a Jungle Cat,he impressed me.Dr.Wong is older than KMF,which is neither here nor there,I’ll get more info if you need…Peace
Yes, Chen Dor I met him back in late 70’s and 80’s. Very powerful kungfu. I remember last name was Chen, but forgot his full name. Does he stil teach in NYC?
I also met Kwong man Fong back then too. I recently found he still teach in NYC, lol. Also very fast and powerful kungfu. I saw him demonstrate at college once, that was how i met him. KMF was very open mind about teaching, Chen Dor has more secretive type personality.
In NYC then was only 3 bak mei teachers, Chen Dor, Kwong, and someone named Lee something forgot full name.
Why would KMF call Chen Dor uncle? They both learn from Cheung Lai Chun. Are they family realtive?
I was in the middle of repling to your post concerning the “uncle question” when I got pulled away from the puter,when I came back it was gone so I’ll sum up what I wrote.Chin or Chen Dor seems to be farther up on the Bai Mai feeding chain,they are not blood kin,Chinese tend to call senior class mates by "older brother,uncle,great uncle in Chi Dor’s case kwong called him Great Grand Uncle.Maybe this is because Chin Dor was one of CLC’s top students when Kwong first put on his grasshopper shoes,I’m not trying to stir anything up(we’ve all had grasshopper shoes,haven’t we?) but Tom murphy learned from Dr.Wong starting in 1977,I started in 1984,if I was Chinese I suppose I would call him “Uncle” as apposed to older brother even though we learned from the same teacher,this status and ranking within the same gen. makes sence to me,from what I understand Kwong has no problem with this.Dr.Wong started training in 1946,started teaching in 1972,so if I had never trained with Wong but instead trained under Kwong in 1984 that would put me in Wong’s gen.Not in my eyes,this status issue within the same gen.would indeed be an interesting topic in its own,now to Cracker, Chen Dor is Very traditional and is not very open.Him and Dr.Wong are VERY close and I had the honor to train under him during his visit.He is a gentleman,I got lucky,right place,right time,right Sifu.
Chin Dor is in New York,may I ask if you are also?,as far as taking on new students I don’t know,are you Chinese?,that might help,if not it might be a problem,perhaps I could be of some help if you seek to be his puple,I could talk to Dr.Wong about reffering you to Chin Dor as a student.But since I nor Dr.Wong knows you, your best bet would be to come down here and I’ll hook ya up,you seem to be a civil person and I enjoy disscusing Bai Mei topics with you as you’ve given me much incite,Where theres a will,theres a way
Yes iam chinese. I posted my training in bai mei on this forum b4.
I wasn’t interested in becoming Chen Dor student, I was interested to know if he still teach in NYC. It has been little over 20yrs since. It is good to know that at least 2 of CLC student still teaching.
I think iam little old and don’t really have as much time to train like i use to anymore. But thank you anyway.
Crackerjacks-
Are you Kwong shifu student? If so u are very lucky.
You’re very welcome and seem to be a gentleman,I’ll dig more on this "uncle issue"since I brought it up.In the future I’ll try to present a more complete story rather than leaving questions such as these to be hatched.To FT,I belive your “Sarm Mun b’qua” may be the same form as my “Salman”,at least if you say them 108 times very fast they sound the same,or maybe its your say mun kuen,ok I know kuen means fist but when you say b’qua do you mean like 8 directions as in Bac Qua?.Concerning the form “Jek Bo” I understand this to mean “Straight Foward” in English,does it translate to straight step or foward or both?,is this a Cantonise/Manderin/Hakka way of saying the same thing?
[This message was edited by tnwingtsun on 02-27-01 at 01:03 AM.]
[This message was edited by tnwingtsun on 02-27-01 at 01:14 AM.]
if so what is your tranlation and differences to jik bo.
sarm mun kuen or b’qua kuen… i have 2 different forms here. sarm mun b’qua has a stomping step in mine, and uses dune kuil, similar to kuil sao in wingchun. do you have this?
sarm mun kuen has elements of ying jow lin kuil and sarm mun b’qua kuen, but 2 different forms.
