Ok bug boys you’ve got my interest. You guys are either too cocky for your own good or you have one heck of a system. So, what’s the difference between the Mantis styles and who puts out the best tapes for your system?
Please don’t turn this into a flame war between PM styles, I just want the facts not politics.
Thanks in advance all.
I used to be daga
Interesting…
How did we interest you?
You are right that Tai chi Praying Mantis is hell of a system. Tai Chi Praying Mantis, Rocks!!!
Mantis108
Contraria Sunt Complementa
No way 8 Step Rocks…
and your Sifu…whover his is, is a fraud :rolleyes:
Anyway I think your best bet would be to find a 7* Mantis tape because thats the most prevalent Mantis Style. I’m guessing Brendan Lai has something good. I don’t know in any other Mantis Styles have tapes. There will be an 8 Step tape coming out, but it’s still in production. There are some bad Mantis Videos out there so beware. I saw one for “Tai Mantis” that was laughable at best. I don’t know what Tai Mantis is. Does it have anything to do with Tai Chi Mantis? There was also some big eared guy claiming to know all Mantis styles. He claimed to know 8 Step, what he showed was shlock, some bits and pieces of actual forms, and used a flury of random hits to demonstrate it. We had a good laugh at it, and he was told to stop and did, but if there are any of those floating around THATS NOT 8STEP!
8Step Sifu
Glad to see you’re interested…
I have no idea where got the idea that all of us are really cocky (I hope I don’t come across that way…since I’m not exactly very good, hehe), but if it got you interested, I guess that’s a good thing, no?
I myself am unsure as to the specific differences between the styles. I do know that my own style, Tai Chi Mantis, is very similar to Seven Star Mantis (aka 7*)… From what I’ve heard, there simply aren’t any good videos on Northern Mantis out there. I do know that my sifu has written several books on some of the forms (they also include small chapters delving on the basic philosophies/techniques, and training methods in mantis). I believe they are named after the respective forms: “Plum Blossom Hand,” “Steals the Peach,” “Spear Hand,” and “Bong Po.” I’ve skimmed through all of them, and from what I’ve read they are all very good (although they obviously do not delve into the more advanced stuff, heh). Of course, this is a shameless plug for my own sifu, so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt. =P Then again, the books come with recommendations from the following people: Pui Chan, Wai Hong, and Kam Yuen (I could swear that there were several more…including Raymond Wong and Wong Jack Man…but I don’t have the book with me, and only those three are mentioned on the Tai Mantis Website…). I would put a “sifu” in front of these names, but I realized that they aren’t my sifu, hehe. Also, I believe that these books are solely on the Seven Star system, as my sifu does not wish to write books on Tai Mantis at this time (I think it has something to do with the elders in the system… He feels that he doesn’t have the right to, since there are those who are higher than he is(?) Someone should know more about this.). Anyway, I’ve ranted enough. It’s 1:00am in the morning here…
8 step,
The Tai Mantis video that you saw was by Scott Cohen. He is not traditional tai mantis. (tai mantis is the same as tai chi mantis) If I saw one 8 step student perform , does that mean I can judge all of you?
Mantis eats the peach
The best tapes are my secret tapes and they’re not for sale. 
Mantis rocks because we have LoHan Gong to basic strenthen our bodies.
Also our basic forms introduce graded movements that teach us the use of the whole body as any solid kung fu should and thus we are prepared to practice ANY sport and we self-know HOW to train the body for any activity.
So we really have learned gongfu: skill.
same
8stepsifu:
"and your Sifu…whover his is, is a fraud "
I hope this was a joke right!!! sometimes things get misunderstood in print…
theghola :
You must be a Sidai of mine from Eng Sifu’s school .
That would make these people to you -
Kam Yuen-Sisuk
Raymond Wong-SiSuk
Wong Jack Man-SiGung or Tai Sifu
ShaolinMantis-I
Mantis
Rogue,
I don’t know if you have seen Secrets of the Warrior’s Power before, but it gives an interesting look at several styles of Kung Fu. It aired on the Discovery Channel, and I believe the documentary has a web site.
Anywho, there are many styles in the program; one of which is Wah Lum. Grandmaster Chan is featured doing Plum Flower posts, several weapons and some forms. This is my style and I find it quite challenging and rewarding. As compared to other styles, I have no idea. Much of mantis work is fluid and strength-oriented. All kung fu is incredible IMO. There are also many weapons forms. Also, watch Master Pan in the video. Very impressive stuff
Not all systems have…
Lo Han Gong…actually most of them DO NOT have it as taught in mainland China. The group that does have it is also refered to sometimes as being “Hong Kong” Mantis…I’ll let you figure out the lineage.
-BTL
“If you eat bitter, you will taste bitter…”
Tai and Tai Chi
LOL… Good one 8steps.
To be honest, my first impression of TCPM and my mentor Galen Fok’s club was that they were cocky. And later when I return to HK, in Sigung Chui’s Kwoon, I met some more cocky folks. But all these people turned out to be the friendliest, caring and a lot of fun to keep company. They share their knowledge indiscrimintly. For them there are not secrets in KF but details. Their mannors are so straight forward that give them that kind of cocky appearance. In reality, they are just at ease being themselves. This, I think, is the down to earth no nonsense approach training that gives them this self confidence. I am not going to say how good we are. I am just going to say come along and train. See for yourselves.
As for the Tai Mantis and Tai Chi Praying Mantis, it is sad that not more material in video format is availble. I have never seen the Tai Mantis videos nor another video tapes, so I can’t comment on it. Love to view it though. I have always encouraged our brothers to address the Tai Chi Praying Mantis with its full name because it points to the fact that TCPM is both a hard and soft styles and is a respect we show to our style. Tai Mantis would cause confussion. But then, that just me.
Rogue,
What exactly would you consider a good Mantis video tape to be?
Mantis108
Contraria Sunt Complementa
yes it was a joke. no I didnt think he represented tai mantis
8Step Sifu
Tai Chi Praying Mantis
When I first came to my Sifu’s class I thought there was like, Praying Mantis, and Wing Chun kung Fu. <Chuckle>
What I found was an old man capable of extraordinary feats I had only seen on old Kung Fu movies.
Over time I had questions, and I was encouraged to ask and to seek the answers for myself.
I came across Sihings Mantis108 and Shaolin Mantis and they put me in contact with many other practitioners such as Jack Wong (not the Jack Wong who fought Bruce Lee as far as I know.)And gave me insight on Sigung, Eng Sifu Fok Sifu and others.
My Sihing in Hawaii translated doccuments for me, my Sihing here in Michigan helps me Tuesday and Thursday Mornings in his studio, and I have met and become part of a close knit family of martial artists and people who will bend over backwards to help.
Ly Sifu himself is an example of compassion and understanding unlike any I have ever seen. His martial skill is unsurpassed by any I have seen in competition, training, film or otherwise. His knowledge transends the combat skill or that of Chi power into health and spirituality.
My brothers and sisters have lived up to the criteria Ly Sifu has told me are the attributes a practitoner of Tai Chi Praying mantis should live up to.
Compassion, honesty, integrity, generosity, and unparalleled excellence in martial practice.
From the examples I have seen both here and in the kwoon, Mantis is where I will maintain my focus. I may continue to study Tang Soo Do or wrestling as hobbies for competition and for fun. I may even decise to teach TSD later in life.
But Mantis Kungfu is where my heart is and spirit.
–Taiji Mantis
Mantis 108, that’s a heck of a good question. I’ve never seen Mantis in action and that’s why I’m asking. I guess the vid would have a form, some self defense and a bit of history. Just an overview of the style.
beitanglang
Taiwan doesn’t belong to mainland China yet.
??
What does Taiwan have to do with the price of tea in Hong Kong??
“If you eat bitter, you will taste bitter…”
Perhaps after
April, I will be able to send you a copy of some TCPM forms, early forms in the style.
Ill try, but I cannot promise anything.
I am trying to put together some clips of events my school has participated in and Sifu has allowed to be taped.
Chi Kung, Forms, weapons and techniques…
namaste
BeiTangLang
Well HongKong is NOT mainland China.
(“They are still so naive” Jiang Ze Min).
Interesting… that news was never reported in Mainland China.
And Taiwan’s Mantis has Lohan Gong.
Amazing,…
I do not recall ever saying that Hong Kong was part of mainland China…wait, let me look,…“Lo Han Gong…actually most of them DO NOT have it as taught in mainland China. The group that does
have it is also refered to sometimes as being “Hong Kong” Mantis…I’ll let you figure out the lineage.
-BTL”…
not there;…lemme look again;…“What does Taiwan have to do with the price of tea in Hong Kong??”…nope. Not there either.
What I said was, most of the mantis practitioners in mainland China do not have the Lo Han Gung. The mantis group that does have it is sometimes refered to as being "Hong Kong"mantis. Lo Guang Yuks’ student Wong Hon Fun is the one that appears to have introduced it to the mantis regimin in our lineage. If Taiwan has it, who hoo,…happy for you…,…what is your lineage??
You original statement,“Mantis rocks because we have LoHan Gong to basic strenthen our bodies”, is still incorrect for most of the practicing praying mantis world…period.
You have it, we have it. Yeah, happy for us.
-B
“If you eat bitter, you will taste bitter…”
BeiTangLang
What’s the matter with you ? You eating too many sour plums? such pendantry.
Listen, I posted about Lohan Gong so why would you be talking about Mainland China? I replied to you as if you were replying to me.
Why is the reason you are only talking about Mainland China?
Your post seems to infer that your discussion world is Mainland China, the Hong Kong group being part of that, as you didn’t mention the rest of the World.
So lets straighten out what you are saying..??
…
I think what you were saying is most of the other northern mantis does not have Lohan Gong? Lohan Gong is only practiced from a HK group? (And now you know the taiwan picture and its spreading from there)
OK that must cover it.
…
I don’t know lohan gong through all the style variations.
I’m sure it must trace back to Wang Lang. Right?
Must. My lineage has preseved old knowledge.
…
All Taiwan Mantis of many lineages (many styles) of which students often learn several have Lohan Gong, and much of that has been exported to other countrys. Much to the USA.
I have never seen traditional mantis nor lohan gong practiced in Mainland. Not to say it isn’t. If it is it would be very low profile. Like some old guys, traditional teachers that have managed to survive are affiliated with the big commercial ful time training centres like in Wudang and they visit and instruct on invitation. There is no public way to get a comperehensive picture about what is the china scope. It takes a lot of time for anyone to gather even a small picture.
My lineage is Liu Yun Qiao, Zhang De Kuei and some others whose names escape me.
Yours?
I don’t know the names you mentioned. The only HK mantis that I know that HAS lohan Gong is 7 star with Lee Kam Wing.
Ha!! ok i just happened to have brought his book up with me from HK. ..
Low Kwang Yu is # 4 master on the stated lineage.
(They use this spelling.) Arhat gong on p 220
..somewhat similar, but too simple or much is left out especially explanation wise… this can’t be much help to an outsider.
[This message was edited by stumblefist on 12-20-00 at 11:16 AM.]
Yep,…
Pedantry?? HAHAHA!!! o.k.,…
<Why is the reason you are only talking about Mainland China?
Because that is where Manis is predomanently practiced, & where the art is from.
<Your post seems to infer that your discussion world is Mainland China, the Hong Kong group being part
of that, as you didn't mention the rest of the World.
So lets straighten out what you are saying..??
Lets!
<…
I think what you were saying is most of the other northern mantis does not have Lohan Gong? Lohan
Gong is only practiced from a HK group? (And now you know the taiwan picture and its spreading from
there)
OK that must cover it.
Not the only group, but it is a group that is known to have a direct line to the mantis lineage through Luo Kwang Yuk. There may be others…But they would for the most part not be from the Chinese mainland as it is currently studied there (This information gathered from the Authentic 7* mantis list containinf several practitioners from there & with links to there via a very recent discussion).
& No, I do not know the Taiwan picture, & I am o.k with that. I leave that one to you.
<…
I don’t know lohan gong through all the style variations.
I’m sure it must trace back to Wang Lang. Right?
Must. My lineage has preseved old knowledge.
As part of the afore-mentioned conversation with many historian practitioners & mantis sifu, No, it is not.
<…
All Taiwan Mantis of many lineages (many styles) of which students often learn several have Lohan
Gong, and much of that has been exported to other countrys. Much to the USA.
Once again I would deffer to you on this because I know nothing of Taiwan.
<I have never seen traditional mantis nor lohan gong practiced in Mainland. Not to say it isn’t. If it is it
would be very low profile. Like some old guys, traditional teachers that have managed to survive are
affiliated with the big commercial ful time training centres like in Wudang and they visit and instruct on
invitation. There is no public way to get a comperehensive picture about what is the china scope. It
takes a lot of time for anyone to gather even a small picture.
I just get my information from people/sifu/students who visit, live & train in China. I trust them at their word.
<My lineage is Liu Yun Qiao, Zhang De Kuei and some others whose names escape me.
Yours?
Mine is here;http://www.authentickungfu.com/seven_star/lineage.html under Sifu Cottrell.
<I don't know the names you mentioned. The only HK mantis that I know that HAS lohan Gong is 7 star
with Lee Kam Wing.
Ha!! ok i just happened to have brought his book up with me from HK. ..
Low Kwang Yu is # 4 master on the stated lineage.
(They use this spelling.) Arhat gong on p 220
..somewhat similar, but too simple or much is left out especially explanation wise... this can't be much
help to an outsider.
I am not familiar with yours either. No difference anyway, Like I said you have it, We have it; Yeah for us. LKW’s books are not the only ones on the subject that are detailed. Its good to be In Taiwan & Texas then isn’t it?? LOL!
Best wishes, this thread has become monotenous I doubt I’ll be back. Happy holidays tho those of you about to celebrate them.
-BTL
“If you eat bitter, you will taste bitter…”