What is the “original” Mantis style?
With all the branches of Praying Mantis out there, I was interested in knowing which style was the one from which all the others sprang.
Far as I know & star is about as close as you can get to the original.Yeah we’re a big family of mantids allright but I think it’s cool watching watching the simliarities and differences in all of them.
“Always be ready”
right, that’s it!you’ve insulted me, and you’ve insulted the shaolin temple!-Fish of Furry
the original form was simply called praying mantis! it was created by a man named wang lang. The history of the Praying Mantis Style of Kung-Fu (T’ang L’ang Ch’uan) began in Gi more County in the Shantung Province, during the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644). From the oral tradition and the writings of later Mantis masters, we know that the founder and patriarch of the style was Wang Lang. he created the stlye after being easly beat by a shaolin monk. He went off in the forest to dwell over his loss and witnessed a mantis and a much larger cicada fighting, after watching the movements of the mantis he was facinated with the defense taticis, he spent many years catching and studing the trapping and attacking movments of the mantis. After many years he went back to the temple and beat every monk up to the abbott.We have a longer version of the complete history on our web site if you would like to read more! also if your interested in other styles of mantis fernando has a great web site at www.mantiscave.com
My sifu told me that 6-harmony mantis came before tai chi mantis which came before 7-star mantis.
Is he wrong?
The Original and the Different Lineages
There are just as many versions of Mantis’ origin as it’s lineages. It would not make a lot of sense to say who’s the inheritor of the original Mantis style or who isn’t.
Kung Fu styles are like languages, it is only alive when changes are made. It is like Latin is original but is dead because it is not in use anymore. English on the other hand is very much alive and we will notice the differences between British, American and the Canadian English usages. So I think we should open our minds to accept the others and look towards the development of our own style for guidence to better ourselves.
Mantis108
Contraria Sunt Complementa
oops meant 7 star. 
“Always be ready”
“right, that’s it!you’ve insulted me, and you’ve insulted the shaolin temple!”-Fish of Furry
Original System
I believe 7-Star is the closest, and if I’m not mistaken, the original Mantis had no footwork in the system. Later on the best footwork system around at the time was added, which was the Monkey footwork, thus making it a complete system. So thats what I have been told and what I have read. 
Im with you 108
The fact of the matter is, most of Chinese history in this respect was passed on orally. With no written doccumentation to verify any claim, it is impossible to determine which is “original” and which isnt. Like Sihing said, Kung Fu is like languages.
I have done a lot of research into this area for a book I was working on (and still am, unfortunately it is being postponed until after my graduation 
)
I came to the conclusion that Jo Si wasnt just beaten by a Shaolin Monk, he was a Shaolin monk. He joined the temple and learned kungfu to help in his plans to overthrow the Qin emperor. His idea was that if he were a great fighter he would then be more readily accepted as a cantidate for general.
He was never able to defeat his brother monk Feng (sp) and was disturbed by this ( a Buddhist monk with ego issues )and so when Feng went out from the temple to spread the Dharma as was customary in those days, Jo Si practiced and formulated his system from the mantis and the cicaida incident we hear about in legend. Feng had promised a rematch upon his return.
The individual who was defeated repeatedly by Shaolin monks was a Taoist Priest by the name of Yen Sil-Dao, who was responsible for bringing Praying Mantis to the general population after having been kept secret behind the walls of Shaolin for over a Century.
Lots of good stuff out there brothers and sisters, but as to the “original” no one knows for sure. Each Sifu taught it differently to different students.
Shanti
well then who is tang lang??
n/t
The Book
May I reserve a copy of the book now?
Namasté Taijimantis
Thanks, How’s the book coming along? I still looking forward for it.
Mantis108
Contraria Sunt Complementa
RE: “well then who is tang lang”
“Tang Lang” is the Mandarin dialect pronounciation for “Praying Mantis”.
“Tong Long” is the Cantonese dialect pronounciation for “Praying Mantis”. The Chinese characters are the same regardless of dialect. Hope this helps.
f
[b]-------------------------------------
A “Laughing Buddha” or “Dai Tao Fut” is usually found cavorting in front of and leading the lion(s) in a Southern Lion Dance troupe.
I speak for myself and not for my Si Fu nor kwoon, so any errors I make are m ine alone.[/b]
The Book
Its on temporary hold until after my graduation. I finally have broken down and taken up the learning of th Chinese language. It was too much to have others help me with it.
Ill keep everyone posted as to when I begin again, but for now school is more important.
Gotta feed the kids
A BIG service!
Hi all,
Can someone pull all this together? What relation do these various mantis branches have with one another? I think 8step and Secret door both came from plum flower, and that TaiJi is related too. After that this get hazy ( for me ).Does mi men come from 8step? or the other way around? Tai Ji?, Xing Qi?, Six Harmonies? etc. I’ve looked at Mantis Cave, a great resource.
Most importantly, WHat makes them unique? How do they differ? How are they the same? I know this is a tough question. But I feel that with all the experience present here, it can be done.
Thanks in advance, for the enlightenment,
MArk
And So It Goes…
Stylistic differences
Secret Door starts with my grand teacher Zhang De Kuei. Passed away in the early '90’s. His grand teacher is Jiang Hwa Long of Plum Flower.
My teacher performs his style of Lan Jie on the Panther tape
NORTHERN PRAYING MANTIS KUNG FU
ORDER #:CHINA-14
(all Chinese)
forms of Secret Door:
Lan Jie
Dzai Yao in 7 sections
8 Elbows in 4 sections
Most noticible about this style is the way the power is generated with short distance. Like 1-3 inch punches. Since that type of power is difficult to express it is never taught to beginners by my teacher.
But if you studied with Zhang you had to do his basics for at least 6 months.
Differences part 2
8 Step starts with Wei Hsiao Tang. Passed away in the 80’s I believe. His grand teacher was also Jiang Hwa Long of Plum flower.
Why are the students of Plum Flower using different names?
According to my Shr-fu Jiang Hwa Long didn’t use the name Plum Flower. As Jiang didn’t use Secret door name.
About 8-step there are 2 stories about the name.
-
From the 8-steps. These are eight 2 man exercises that are designed to be able to change from one technique to another.
-
From another character “to uproot” which sounds like “8” in Chinese. This is a type of jump often seen in most Mantis styles. It is said this name was given by Wei’s students.
I’ll be asking some of the old timers about the truth when I get a chance. But since reason #1 is already written in the 8-step book that is probably what everyone will think 100 years from now.
Forms:
Hsiao fan che
Da fan che
Dzai yao in 6 sections.
Li pi
and a short form, 7 hands
Pai an
The way I learned this style was suitable for my lanky body, with very long whipping motions. But I have seen Wei’s older students do some of the punches like Secret Door with the short power.
So mostly about the look, the difference should be in the individual and him doing the motion that is suitable for his body type and personality.
Clarification
Great post TM, thanks for the inforamation!
Questions for clarification.
Jiang Hwa Long studied Mei Hua( Plum flower), and at the end of his life created 8 step. He passed this system on to Feng Huan Yi, and Wang Zi Jing? Or, did he invent Mi Men, as well and pass that only on to Wang?
Both Mi Men (secret door)and Ba Bu (8 Step) share similar footwork. According to Tainan Mantis, one of the differences is the short power puches (sound similar to wing chun?!). Any other diferences?
I remain gratfull for whatever wisdom comes my way.
Mark
And So It Goes…
Tainan Manits
Tainan Mantis, I have seen your sifu move on that tape. He is quite good! My kung fu brother and I watched the preying mantis tape and felt he was a really good representative in that video. Wow, when he performed Lan Jie, it took my breath away. I can’t say too much about the other mantis practitioners (specifically the ones in the black uniforms)who were on the tape.
I myself come from Master Su Yu Chang’s lineage. My sifu is Kurt Wong who was orginally a disciple of Mastter Su before becoming a disciple of GM Liu Yun Qiao. I primarily concentrate on Bajiquan and only have been exposed to 7 star and 8 step mantis. Now I know why Master Su said Mi Men Tang Lang is perhaps the hardest to learn out of all the mantis systems.
You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet.
Zhang De Kuei’s grandteacher…
was not Jiang Hwa Long. Sorry for the mistake several posts back. His grandteacher was Song Dz De, kung fu brother of Jiang Hwa Long.
Kram1
It is unlikely that Jiang Hwa Long created the name 8 Step or Mei Hwa. According to my teacher he never used any name but PM. Same thing with Zhang De Kuei.
Feng Huan Yi is Wei Hsiao Tang’s PM teacher. But in a poem he wrote about his teachers(includes names) it is obvious that he traveled around and learned from many different people. ( I think this is why they were good, they cross trained).
Jiang Hwa Long’s students who learned from him at different periods in his life would have learned something different as he was mixing with other masters throughout his life learning new things. Not to mention that as one gets older they do their kung fu differently.
According to history, Jiang Hwa Long’s chief disciple is Li Ku Shan then Li Hong Jie then my teacher. This is recorded at the Wang Lang temple in Lao Shan. Although I’ve never been there but my teacher has pictures, for whatever that is worth. There are undoubtedly other’s names recorded as sole inheritor there, too.
In my opinion the biggest differences between 8-Step and Secret Door are the forms. I haven’t learned all those forms but I’ve seen that the 2 different style’s Dzia Yao forms are very different, even look unrelated. Also Secret door has more short range and 8 Step more long range.
For example: over head smash-PI- has a straight elbow in 8 Step but bent in Secret Door. The technique’s differences is an individual preference based on body type and what works for the individual.
Hey, I’m from Tampa too. Where do you study PM?
Guo Bao-Lo
That Lan Jie you saw on the Panther video looks difficult to do and yet it is the first form of the style. It is obvious that there where no introductory forms in those days.
My teacher has also said Secret Door is the hardest to learn, as well as being the closest to the way Wang Lang did his PM.
Does Kurt Wong have a web page I can see?
Website
Tainan Mantis,
Our website is http://www.geocities.com/pao_chuan/wutanhp.html
You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet.