[QUOTE=daiyoshida;1198710]Even if your teacher isn’t very talkative, how hard is it to ask, “How do you use this?”[/QUOTE]
Even if you may ask that question, your question is still limited by the boundary of that form. When your teacher teaches you a Taiji form, will you ask him how to do a “flying knee”?
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1198711]Even if you may ask that question, your question is still limited by the boundary of that form. When your teacher teaches you a Taiji form, will you ask him how to do a “flying knee”?[/QUOTE]
Say, what?
I don’t know, maybe I’m getting too old for this. You kids speak a different language.
[QUOTE=daiyoshida;1198716]Say, what?
I don’t know, maybe I’m getting too old for this. You kids speak a different language.[/QUOTE]
To be old doesn’t mean you should lose your sense of humor. I may jump ahead a bit too fast. Here is the difference:
method 1: form -> application
A: Today we work on Taiji. This is Taiji “golden rooster stand on one leg”.
B: What’s the application for this?
A: You use one palm to push on your opponent’s chin and strike your knee into his groin.
B: If the distance is too far, can I use my back leg to jump in and strke with my front knee?
A: If you do that, it will no longer be Taiji. The Taiji “golden rooster stand on one leg” doesn’t have that jump.
B: If my opponent use that on me, what should I do to counter him?
A: Just wait when I teach you another form that has that counter. You should not have to worry about it when you work on this form.
method 2: application
A: Today we work on “knee strike”. You can strike your knee straight up, 45 degree upward, 90 degree horizontal. If the distance is far, you can use your back leg to jump in and strke with you front knee. Also if your opponent use it on you, you can counter him by …
B: What style are you teaching me?
A: I’m teaching you how to use “knee strike”. It has nothing to do with style.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1198738]A: Today we work on Taiji. This is Taiji “golden rooster stand on one leg”.
B: What’s the application for this?
A: You use one palm to push on your opponent’s chin and strike your knee into his groin.
B: If the distance is too far, can I use my back leg to jump in and strke with my front knee?
A: If you do that, it will no longer be Taiji. The Taiji “golden rooster stand on one leg” doesn’t have that jump.[/QUOTE]
Is Tai Chi really that literal in their forms?
I’m not a Tai Chi guy, but I’m told that they do extrapolate the generic motion to include the broad range of entire class of methods.
One person told me his teacher explained a single backfist as representative of every possible backfist. And what about the whole body being the fist?
The explanation of single leg stance in Mantis include stepping with knee attack, jumping knee attack, leg hooking attack, kicking, jump kicking…
We are not so literal to exclude those.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1198711]Even if you may ask that question, your question is still limited by the boundary of that form. When your teacher teaches you a Taiji form, will you ask him how to do a “flying knee”?[/QUOTE]
Is it so difficult to see can also be a knee attack?
Our body parts can perform many different functions:
We should try to understand what our body can do and not just what TCMA forms can teach us.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1198776]- The “form -> applications approach” center around “TCMA forms”.
Our body parts can perform many different functions:
We should try to understand what our body can do and not just what TCMA forms can teach us.[/QUOTE]
So if you want to teach someone using this method it basically means that you want to reorganize parts of different styles that are in your understanding useful and make a new “style”. Probably all the styles have been created and developed in this way.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1198738]To be old doesn’t mean you should lose your sense of humor. I may jump ahead a bit too fast. Here is the difference:
method 1: form -> application
A: Today we work on Taiji. This is Taiji “golden rooster stand on one leg”.
B: What’s the application for this?
A: You use one palm to push on your opponent’s chin and strike your knee into his groin.
B: If the distance is too far, can I use my back leg to jump in and strke with my front knee?
A: If you do that, it will no longer be Taiji. The Taiji “golden rooster stand on one leg” doesn’t have that jump.
B: If my opponent use that on me, what should I do to counter him?
A: Just wait when I teach you another form that has that counter. You should not have to worry about it when you work on this form.
method 2: application
A: Today we work on “knee strike”. You can strike your knee straight up, 45 degree upward, 90 degree horizontal. If the distance is far, you can use your back leg to jump in and strke with you front knee. Also if your opponent use it on you, you can counter him by …
B: What style are you teaching me?
A: I’m teaching you how to use “knee strike”. It has nothing to do with style.[/QUOTE]
kung fu is not complete without combining method 1 and 2.
YKW
If you are a teacher and you have learned 20 forms in your lifetime. You can
As a teacher 1 and 3 are correct. (considering you learned properly from a good teacher) I teach as how I have been taught adding my own flavor and finesse, ie. #1
#3. I wil also allow my students to understand and apply as many techniques as they can learn properly with execution.
HOWEVER, as a teacher I DO NOT have the right to remove anything from my system as I was not the creator. out of resepect for the masters whom passed down the information to me I may choose to not spend lots of time or practice things that are redundant, but I will always uphold my traditional path.
some techniques I learned in Go Ju vback in the 80’s were blocking application from your opponent on horse back… I dont think I will ever use them living in NY. LOL but i dont have the right to remove this app from the style based on my personal thoughts…
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1198003]Why can we train like this - no style? Your thought?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsLkqwQrCS8[/QUOTE]
Because if you do that, no matter the years of experience and your expertise, your lineage will be questioned… and without lineage you are not a martial artist:D
Just kidding…
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1198738]To be old doesn’t mean you should lose your sense of humor. I may jump ahead a bit too fast. Here is the difference:
method 1: form -> application
A: Today we work on Taiji. This is Taiji “golden rooster stand on one leg”.
B: What’s the application for this?
A: You use one palm to push on your opponent’s chin and strike your knee into his groin.
B: If the distance is too far, can I use my back leg to jump in and strke with my front knee?
A: If you do that, it will no longer be Taiji. The Taiji “golden rooster stand on one leg” doesn’t have that jump.
B: If my opponent use that on me, what should I do to counter him?
A: Just wait when I teach you another form that has that counter. You should not have to worry about it when you work on this form.
method 2: application
A: Today we work on “knee strike”. You can strike your knee straight up, 45 degree upward, 90 degree horizontal. If the distance is far, you can use your back leg to jump in and strke with you front knee. Also if your opponent use it on you, you can counter him by …
B: What style are you teaching me?
A: I’m teaching you how to use “knee strike”. It has nothing to do with style.[/QUOTE]
I’ve never studied Taiji but we were surrounded by Taiji players in the park where I was taught. There were basically 2 types of Taiji instructors that I saw.
There were those who taught the forms exclusively and made no mention of applications. Their execution were flawless and dignified. I knew one of these teachers personally and given a situation she can be very lethal but she prefer to just teach forms, which is fine.
The other kind were pretty brutal. I’ve seen a poor chap get his face shoved into the concrete floor and came up rather bloody. Looking back I’m surprised nobody got arrested, considering the place was right behind the police station.
I can’t say I know any teacher that taught like your method #1. I’d venture to say that that’s more like a caricature. But then who know, I’ve met walking caricatures too.
[QUOTE=xinyidizi;1198777]So if you want to teach someone using this method it basically means that you want to reorganize parts of different styles that are in your understanding useful and make a new “style”. Probably all the styles have been created and developed in this way.[/QUOTE]
Of course, if a teacher has to teach with “no style”, he has to “cross train” 1st. This way he can understand all different ranges and achieve a true integration.
There is no need to create a new style. The following tools are all needed in combat:
We can come up logical combos in each areas 1st such as:
We can then come up integration combos such as:
The word “style” still plays no part so far. Again, if you link your combos, you will get your forms. The “no style approach” can still have forms if people are interested.
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1198788]
HOWEVER, as a teacher I DO NOT have the right to remove anything from my system as I was not the creator. out of resepect for the masters whom passed down the information to me I may choose to not spend lots of time or practice things that are redundant, but I will always uphold my traditional path.
[/QUOTE]
Are you implying the founders of your arts were disrespectful to their teachers for changing around things and making new things?
[QUOTE=pazman;1198898]Are you implying the founders of your arts were disrespectful to their teachers for changing around things and making new things?[/QUOTE]
I was talking to my senior SC brother the other day about this concern. The tradition “hip throw” footwork is very easy to let your opponent to spin with you and drag you down to the ground. The 90 degree trun footwork is better. The question is:
Should we
My teacher always said, “It’s not your problem. It’s not even your teacher’s problem. It might be the style founder’s problem.” I love his attitude.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1198920]I was talking to my senior SC brother the other day about this concern. The tradition “hip throw” footwork is very easy to let your opponent to spin with you and drag you down to the ground. The 90 degree trun footwork is better. The question is:
Should we
My teacher always said, “It’s not your problem. It’s not even your teacher’s problem. It might be the style founder’s problem.” I love his attitude.[/QUOTE]
Teach both traditional method and modern method at the same time
[QUOTE=pazman;1198898]Are you implying the founders of your arts were disrespectful to their teachers for changing around things and making new things?[/QUOTE]
That is one of the best questions posed yet… was the intention of the creator of the art for it to become stagnant or was their intention for the art to evolve?
[QUOTE=pateticorecords;1198931]That is one of the best questions posed yet… was the intention of the creator of the art for it to become stagnant or was their intention for the art to evolve?[/QUOTE]
Even the best copy machine, the quality will get worse and worse. I hate to be just a “copy machine”.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1198933]Even the best copy machine, the quality will get worse and worse. I hate to be just a “copy machine”.[/QUOTE]
I am in agreement… in order to not become extinct we must evolve.
Only the wisest and stupidest of men never change. -Confucius
[QUOTE=pateticorecords;1198936]I am in agreement… in order to not become extinct we must evolve.
Only the wisest and stupidest of men never change. -Confucius[/QUOTE]
i would die before abandoning my culture.
i dont have to chase shadows, search for roots. im secure in my knowledge of self, in my heritage, history and culture. i have continuity, i dont have to imitate, adpot, or try to recreate.
many people can talk about evolving and throwing away culture because they dont have any. what is your highly evolved culture? bombing brown people, cheating on your wife, and eat a turkey once a year.
[QUOTE=bawang;1198948]i would die before abandoning my culture.
i dont have to chase shadows, search for roots. im secure in my knowledge of self, in my heritage, history and culture. i have continuity, i dont have to imitate, adpot, or try to recreate.
many people can talk about evolving and throwing away culture because they dont have any. what is your highly evolved culture? bombing brown people, cheating on your wife, and eat a turkey once a year.[/QUOTE]
Don’t hate on the turkey. You are walking into dangerous territory, Bawang.