[QUOTE=bawang;1203645]try not to get thrown…[/QUOTE]
How? Are you talking about resistance? What kind of resistance?
Sinking down?
Moving back?
Moving forward?
Spinning?
Jumping up?
Apply hip throw counters?
…
The thing is if you do something, I suppose to borrow your force and execute different throw. You are helping me to develop other throws but not hip throw.
If you apply this, even the best throwing master on this planet won’t be able to throw you.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1203652]How? Are you talking about resistance? What kind of resistance?
Sinking down?
Moving back?
Moving forward?
Spinning?
Jumping up?
Apply hip throw counters?
…
The thing is if you do something, I suppose to borrow your force and execute different throw. You are helping me to develop other throws but not hip throw.[/QUOTE]
the whole point of a two partner drill is that your partner is a human being. if you need to practice the motion of your throw, use a log.
in old times the two man forms in long fist was done in full force. if you miss you are knocked out. this is non compliance.
I won’t call that compliance because your opponent still move in a predefined pattern.
In the throwing art, the harder that your opponent may resist, the easier that you can throw him. In the striking art, your opponent’s resistance may force him to run into your punch or kick.
[QUOTE=bawang;1203651]almost all modern kung fu training is compliance training.so our attitude toward compiance training should not be positive.
the spirit of this discussion has not been about the merits of compliance training for combat. it has been used as an excuse to not train realistically and to justify the compliance training in kung fu.
[/QUOTE]
I completely agree that without training against a non-compliant partner your never going to be able to use your art effectively. But how are you going to develop a good sweep from a clinch without working it for a while with a willing partner? If you just go straight into sparring/grappling with him your not going to have a good feel for the mechanics.
How about standing with your guard up in a fighting stance and deflecting punches? Drill it for 5 minutes, then test it moving around with more techs in a sparring situation. Much better than trying to parry punches when you’ve never practiced the technique.
Check a low roundhouse with your knee. It takes a bit to get the timing on that. Try learning it in the ring with a non compliant partner and you won’t be walking.
I get you that a lot of people have watered down KF by only doing compliance training, where they get in a rhythm and know exactly what’s going to happen; or practice unrealistic, choreographed self defense techniques against a guy leaving his arm fully extended for them…but if your going to develop the basics you got to have some amount of drilling/refining technique in a compliant/learning situation, before you jump directly into applying it.
MMA does this all the time too. You don’t think BJJ guys practice their submissions on a partner who is using minimal resistance, until they get the lock down? You don’t think mma guys practice slipping a punch and shooting for a take down, when their partner knows this is going to happen, allows it to happen then pulls the other guy into guard, with him also knowing this is going to happen?
in old times the two man forms in long fist was done in full force. if you miss you are knocked out. this is non compliance.[/QUOTE]
Actually that’s pretty much compliant training too. You already know what he’s supposed to do and he does it.
Still no reason you can’t practice the two man form full force today. Just keep knocking your partners out until you get a guy who will block for real.
[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1203655] If you just go straight into sparring/grappling with him your not going to have a good feel for the mechanics.
[/QUOTE]
kung fu doesnt spar/grapple. thats why its not good for us to speak positively about compliance.
[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1203656]Actually that’s pretty much compliant training too. You already know what he’s supposed to do and he does it.
Still no reason you can’t practice the two man form full force today. Just keep knocking your partners out until you get a guy who will block for real. :D[/QUOTE]
compliance means i willingly let you perform the technique on me.
[QUOTE=bawang;1203657]kung fu doesnt spar/grapple. thats why its not good for us to speak positively about compliance.[/QUOTE]
In another “internal” forum that people over there only like to talk about “Yin muscle and Yang muscle”, they may not spar/wrestle much. I though everybody in this forum are all bad assess.
[QUOTE=bawang;1203663]kung fu as an entity, an idea. non serious ethnic dance class/fantasy role playing.[/QUOTE]
You don’t have much faith in TCMA do you? When I tried to defend the honor of the TCMA, I felt pressure from the MMA group. I also felt pressure from the TCMA group.
When I talk about “sinking”, people in Karate forum can’t careless about it. When I talk about “combat strategy”, people in “internal” forum also can’t careless about it.
The “correct way of the TCMA training” is like banana. The MMA guys think the outside is not white enough. The TCMA guys think the inside is not yellow enough. It’s pretty sad indeed.
[QUOTE=bawang;1203663]kung fu as an entity, an idea. non serious ethnic dance class/fantasy role playing.[/QUOTE]
Kung Fu has an identity crisis, as does Karate, Tae Kwon Do and a lot of the other so called traditional arts. The main problem is that people do not teach traditionally, have never been taught traditionally, don’t know the history and don’t have the will to do the hard work. That and they like their fantasy land.
Karate is somewhat newer, they may or may not have had these traditions in their past. Tae Kwon Do is essentially modern. They have an excuse. Kung Fu has no excuse. Sparring, fighting, partner training and conditioning are historically huge aspects of Kung Fu. If someone doesn’t teach these things they aren’t teaching traditional KF.
I think I see a lot of folks on this forum who at least talk like they do/teach these things. It’s up to the new generation of teachers and students to go back to the roots of Kung Fu as a martial art, a method of combat…if we want it to be preserved as anything more than a folk dance.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1203664]You don’t have much faith in TCMA do you? When I tried to defend the honor of the TCMA, I felt pressure from the MMA group. I also felt pressure from the TCMA group.
When I talk about “sinking”, people in Karate forum can’t careless about it. When I talk about combat strategy, people in “internal” forum also can’t careless about it. It’s pretty sad indeed.[/QUOTE]
there are three lineages of tcma
-original tcma
bruce lee lineage
jet li lineage
i follow original lineage tcma.
[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1203667]Kung Fu has an identity crisis, as does Karate, Tae Kwon Do and a lot of the other so called traditional arts. The main problem is that people do not teach traditionally, have never been taught traditionally, don’t know the history and don’t have the will to do the hard work. That and they like their fantasy land.
[/QUOTE]
no. kung fu does not have an identity crisis. it is merely the rice bowl factory gone out of control.
when UFC showed up in the 90s, kung fu was humiliated and many people claimed to “change their ways and train real combat” to save face. this is not identity crisis, this is just being a two faced hypocrite. kissing mma ass when confronted, insulting mma when they arent in the room.
many kung fu people try to train “realistic” not out of desire to fight and kill, but ego.
The “correct way of the TCMA training” is like banana. The MMA guys think the outside is not white enough. The TCMA guys think the inside is not yellow enough. It’s pretty sad indeed.[/QUOTE]
a traditional saying goes, “when you have mud on your pants, people will say you sh1t yourself”.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1203670]I don’t follow any lineage tcma. I’ll take it until I can find something better".[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=bawang;1203672]i do skwaats and bench press.[/QUOTE]
That’s strength training/conditioning…one traditional aspect…
I never understand the folks who say weight training is bad? How can being stronger ever hurt your martial arts? It’s good for every other sport in the world accept your particular, special MA…you know the type..:rolleyes:
The “correct way of the TCMA training” is like banana. The MMA guys think the outside is not white enough. The TCMA guys think the inside is not yellow enough. It’s pretty sad indeed.[/QUOTE]
