[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1055951]kung fu is skill over time, MMA is skill over time, Kung fu is MMA and MMA is king fu.
We can ADD to that as much as we want, but at its core, kung fu is simply a cultivated skill and that is what MMA is also.[/QUOTE]
Yes, when you put it that way, MMA is off course kung fu…Well played that comment completely beat my point… ummm… I concede.
What I am trying to say is that comparing Kung Fu to MMA is kind of like comparing Yoga to say Football. They can be compared on many levels (yoga and football) relating to physical abilities and fitness, but then there are many ways they cannot be compared.
Kung fu is just something that can’t be completely compared with MMA. I realise no one is trying to completely compare it with MMA, but sometimes I think people get this feeling and that is when things start to get heated. Because the two cannot be compared the argument logically can never end.
To some degree, I actually agree with Knifefighter’s statement, although I suspect any accusation of suckage will be greeted poorly on any forum. The heart of the matter is that the MMA proponents here have been yanking the CMA supporters chains, and the CMA supporters are falling for it. That’s a shame because to fall for such a pithy taunt is shallow.
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1055952]Yes, when you put it that way, MMA is off course kung fu…Well played that comment completely beat my point… ummm… I concede.
What I am trying to say is that comparing Kung Fu to MMA is kind of like comparing Yoga to say Football. They can be compared on many levels (yoga and football) relating to physical abilities and fitness, but then there are many ways they cannot be compared.
Kung fu is just something that can’t be completely compared with MMA. I realise no one is trying to completely compare it with MMA, but sometimes I think people get this feeling and that is when things start to get heated. Because the two cannot be compared the argument logically can never end.[/QUOTE]
I would argue that they have more in common than not.
Forgetting for one moment that MMA is in actuality just a name of a sport/ruleset.
What MMA does is address the multiple “ranges” of combat and tests the skills developed to fight within those ranges in a limited rules, full contact controlled environment.
It is physcially demanding and practioners are trained to “kick, strike, throw and lock”.
What part of the above is not common on “kung fu”?
None of it, kung fu has all of that and always had.
MMA takes the best of multiple systems and adapts it to its environment.
What is uncommon in kung fu about this statement?
Nothing.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1055955]I would argue that they have more in common than not.
Forgetting for one moment that MMA is in actuality just a name of a sport/ruleset.
What MMA does is address the multiple “ranges” of combat and tests the skills developed to fight within those ranges in a limited rules, full contact controlled environment.
It is physcially demanding and practioners are trained to “kick, strike, throw and lock”.
What part of the above is not common on “kung fu”?
None of it, kung fu has all of that and always had.
MMA takes the best of multiple systems and adapts it to its environment.
What is uncommon in kung fu about this statement?
Nothing.[/QUOTE]
i suspect he is talking about the spiritual/medical/mythical side of the training
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1055953]To some degree, I actually agree with Knifefighter’s statement, although I suspect any accusation of suckage will be greeted poorly on any forum. The heart of the matter is that the MMA proponents here have been yanking the CMA supporters chains, and the CMA supporters are falling for it. That’s a shame because to fall for such a pithy taunt is shallow.[/QUOTE]
It’s kinda of hard to be a drop of water in an ocean of sh1t though don’t you think? lol
Kung fu is an eastern form of science that explores all parts of the human condition. So you can’t compare one part of it.
Yes we can compare the two as martial arts, but the problem is is that if MMA comes on top some people (not you guys) seem all but ready to throw away kung fu forever, not realising that by ignoring it they are ignoring a lot more than they think.
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1055953]To some degree, I actually agree with Knifefighter’s statement, although I suspect any accusation of suckage will be greeted poorly on any forum. The heart of the matter is that the MMA proponents here have been yanking the CMA supporters chains, and the CMA supporters are falling for it. That’s a shame because to fall for such a pithy taunt is shallow.[/QUOTE]
What the CMA proponents fail to see is that we are not knocking CMA per se, we are making fun of unsubstantiated claims.
We will say the same thing regarding any unsubstantiated claims of BJJ, boxing, or Muay Thai, or MMA.
The majority of the standing “self-defense” techniques in BJJ are as much theoretical nonsense as many other things we make fun of.
We will say the same thing regarding any unsubstantiated claims of BJJ, boxing, or Muay Thai, or MMA.
there are as many tapout wearing, arrogant, BJJ nutriding, go to class once and you know how to fight, douchbags out there as there are fantasy fu, mythical dim mak we spar but don’t do ground fighting because it will never go that far Traditional guys.
Kung fu is an eastern form of science that explores all parts of the human condition. So you can’t compare one part of it.
Yes we can compare the two as martial arts, but the problem is is that if MMA comes on top some people (not you guys) seem all but ready to throw away kung fu forever, not realising that by ignoring it they are ignoring a lot more than they think.[/QUOTE]
Maybe in your eyes those things you listed are important. To others they are not. By telling someone they are wrong for not adopting those philosophical traits, and let’s be honest, they are philosophical in nature, you are no better than an MMA nut hugger who puts down Kung Fu. CMA were created for battle. Philosophical ideologies added in later does not hinder one way or the other the effectiveness or lack there of to the martial part of Kung Fu.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;1055965]What the CMA proponents fail to see is that we are not knocking CMA per se, we are making fun of unsubstantiated claims. [/quote]
really? the unsubstantiated claims that you declare and then proceed to tear down, or the ones you lay bait for with vitriol and badgering and then ambush the person who is now in argument mode with you? Which is it?
We will say the same thing regarding any unsubstantiated claims of BJJ, boxing, or Muay Thai, or MMA.
Not here in this forum you don’t. “we” who is “we?” Who are you throwing in with here to defend your insulated view and apparently redacted record of what you do here in this forum?
The majority of the standing “self-defense” techniques in BJJ are as much theoretical nonsense as many other things we make fun of.
I think you make fun of whatever you don’t personally like or know or understand.
Because you fail to make it work, to you it would seem that that constitutes bs, and yet, why would the standing self defense stuff even be in bjj if it was nonsense? I’m pretty sure the only place nonsense comes from in martial arts is from trying to interpret something that you don’t understanding the first place. Like how you try to interpret traditional martial arts.
So I guess if one was to add all those things that were add to kung fu, then MMA would indeed be Kung fu?
MMA would be kung fu if we added the cultural trappings, pseudo-philosophical anecdotes, unsubstantiated “internal health” claims, etc etc?
I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t need my MA to have any of that.
I don’t get my morals, ethics, philosophy, culture and whatnots from MA.
That is not what they were developed for.
I think you make fun of whatever you don’t personally like or know or understand.
Because you fail to make it work, to you it would seem that that constitutes bs, and yet, why would the standing self defense stuff even be in bjj if it was nonsense? I’m pretty sure the only place nonsense comes from in martial arts is from trying to interpret something that you don’t understanding the first place. Like how you try to interpret traditional martial arts.[/QUOTE]
No the standing self defense is non sense anyone who has studied bjj knows they are unrealistic and depend entirely on your opponenet being ridiculously stiff for them to work.
By that reasoning we might as well say the earth must be flat because people believed in it at widely at one time.
I don’t get my morals, ethics, philosophy, culture and whatnots from MA.
That is not what they were developed for.
I think a lot of people forget this. MA’s was developed for war period, to think other wise is dumb. The mythical “additives” were added later on. Why don’t we just take the title out “martial” and leave arts because that’s all it is arts (the spiritual,mythical, philosophy,ethics,culture whatnots)
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1055981]So I guess if one was to add all those things that were add to kung fu, then MMA would indeed be Kung fu?
MMA would be kung fu if we added the cultural trappings, pseudo-philosophical anecdotes, unsubstantiated “internal health” claims, etc etc?
I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t need my MA to have any of that.
I don’t get my morals, ethics, philosophy, culture and whatnots from MA.
That is not what they were developed for.[/QUOTE]
DING, DING, DING, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Look, what it all boils down to is this. Kung Fu is a martial art, you can have all the philosophical mumbo jumbo you want, but without the martial part of a martial art it is all talk, no action.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1055981]So I guess if one was to add all those things that were add to kung fu, then MMA would indeed be Kung fu?
MMA would be kung fu if we added the cultural trappings, pseudo-philosophical anecdotes, unsubstantiated “internal health” claims, etc etc?
I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t need my MA to have any of that.
I don’t get my morals, ethics, philosophy, culture and whatnots from MA.
That is not what they were developed for.[/QUOTE]
One can achieve Kung Fu in mixed martial arts. yes.
MMA is what it is.
Kung Fu..well, it is incomplete if it doesn’t touch on transformative process and the human being as a whole.
You can learn the fighting aspect of a style of chinese martial art, indeed you may even achieve some great skill in it, but if that is the extent of your Kung Fu, then that is the extent of it.
Kung Fu does include philosophy, it does include healthful regimens as well as militaristic ones. It has all sorts of other inward looking aspects in it that are employed to develop good character and in many cases a sense of morality and of ethics that are in line with the upright man of Confucian thought.
If all you want to do is learn to fight, get conditioned and gain some stamina, then I would suggest you avoid Kung Fu altogether because you will feel that there is too much else in there.
