Would mixing WC with any grappling style make a WC practioner more prepared for any type of attack or would it make his/her WC watered down?
LOL, silly me!
welcome to the forum!
so sorry to see you leave so soon…
the bridge is that way --------------->
Well, considering that you have made only 4 posts, one has to wonder if this is one big troll job. :rolleyes:
But if not, then indeed…welcome to the forum! 
Troll
Another one attempting to push buttons, me thinks.
joy chaudhuri
If you will examine all the grappling systems you will see that most of them will have pretty close to the same basic methods. When learning WC I was taught many of these same methods, so I was of the opinion that it was also part of the WC system. I still think it is. I have also learned the system of Japanese Jujitsu, which has all the same techniques of most of the other systems. WC and JJJ marry very well. JJJ can be brutal, but it can be used when you do not feel the need to be brutal. It is called the gental art. WC is more a brutal system designed to inflict pain and injury if not death. With JJJ you can slam people into the ground, break limbs or neck, strangle someone to death, all sorts of things. Or you can use a wrist lock to control someone. You see lots of submissions in the ring using arm and leg holds and chokes. What other grappling system were you considering?
Would mixing WC with any grappling style make a WC practioner more prepared for any type of attack or would it make his/her WC watered down?
There’s lots of threads on this already. Everything there is to say has already been said on them.
[QUOTE=Keefer;937955]Would mixing WC with any grappling style make a WC practioner more prepared for any type of attack or would it make his/her WC watered down?[/QUOTE]
don’t mind the negative people. If you have the time how could it have any effect on your wc? they are completly different. One could make the argument that training other striking arts could “water down” your wing chun, but the problem I could see is taking your time. If you are like me and you don’t have a life.. why not?
I would suggest Judo with a little BJJ. Judo mixes very well with WC and it deals with clinching something WC doesn’t really. If you have more time then BJJ is a great grappling art. I would avoid any style that is based on allot of power. Allot of grapplers(none BJJ) like to dog BJJ,but really BJJ today encompasses all grappling arts. A majority of BJJ schools take techniques and ideas from CSW, catch, greco, judo ect.. so really its becoming more of a general term.
Have you tried a class? its a great sport! It has done allot for my chi sao.
Knowledge cannot take away from any other knowledge.
There is no style which you can practice, that will make your own style any less.
Certain styles may give you “bad habits” from one persons opinion, or another, but as an intelligent martial artist you will eventually work those out.
Or maybe you won’t. Either way, unless you seek knowledge from more than one source, you will never realize your full potential.
[QUOTE=Keefer;937955]Would mixing WC with any grappling style make a WC practioner more prepared for any type of attack or would it make his/her WC watered down?[/QUOTE]
Mixing WC and grappling is fine. All of my students also study BJJ. However, from an instructional stand point I do not spend time trying to integrate them because in WC class I am trying to teach a very specific set of skills irrespective of whether it would work in MMA or against a grappler. I tell my students to leave their BJJ at home for WC class and vice versa.
In short develop each art fully for what they are don’t turn every lesson into a mixed martial arts class and take what your instructor gives you for what it is in each art and you will much better off in the long run.
tools is tools. period.
Hello,
I would suggest reading “Living the Martial Way”. An excellent read which addresss the idea of cross training.
The book stresses the idea of building upon your core style or system. In other words take the other arts and mold them to your original core.
IMHO, too many people try to grapple a grappler or box a boxer, in other words fighting their fight. When instead they should utilize an understanding of the opponents techniques and use that to enhance their own training. Intergrate it into your core system don’t disregard your core art but take the time to delve deeply and incorporate.
This is nothing new…warriors have been doing it for centuries. Many well known martial styles were only available to people with prior training in another art.
^
The problem I have with this is that there is too much focus on styles or systems being central to how you fight. How you fight should be a natural expression based on your strengths and understanding of how your body functions… not a recital of trained movements. The trained movements are simply a means to understanding how your body works, and these movements should be able to be infinitely variable.
For instance, as someone who has trained in wing chun, you wouldn’t sit your ass down with 70 percent of your weight on the back leg unless the situation called for it or you were naturally better suited for this position. (that being said, anyone who says wing chun techniques are only effective from this stance or that stance, or whatever, has no understanding of the style conceptually) Thus it is a necessity to find not only your own most comfortable stance for your body type, but also one that makes sense from a defensive standpoint.
Now, when you say, too many people try to grapple a grappler, you are not playing their game by grappling with them, grappling is not style or game-specific, its a way of describing fighting when grabbing or holding with someone, or in otherwords, a close in-fight, usually on your back or fighting an opponent who is on their back… But no matter what style you do, BJJ, Wing Chun, Tae Kwon Do - Grappling is a part of fighting. You may have someone whose gameplan is focused on grappling, but Grappling itself is not a gameplan.
That being said, no matter what your supposedly “core” style is(but honestly, all stylistic boundries should be dissolved by the point that you’re fighting confidently with what you know, there should be no “Core” style because all logical concepts are expressed through a person, not through a system), you need to do what you are good at. If that means you’ve been training wing chun for 30 years, have no grappling experience but naturally are a better grappler/wrestler, then the smartest thing to do would be to wrestle/grapple. Thats just common sense. Unfortunately many martial artists go against it! 
In short develop each art fully for what they are don’t turn every lesson into a mixed martial arts class and take what your instructor gives you for what it is in each art and you will much better off in the long run.
I agree with this - I too study and teach both WC and BJJ.
I think there is also a need for an occasional MMA. or integration class. You don’t want to teach what one of the more prolific but less intelligent posters here called a “mishmash” or “glorified kickboxing”, but IMO self defense and MMA have some skill sets outside both pure BJJ and traditional WC.
Andriank Said
If that means you’ve been training wing chun for 30 years, have no grappling experience but naturally are a better grappler/wrestler, then the smartest thing to do would be to wrestle/grapple.
What if your better at Striking than grappling. You tried Grappling styles in the past and found them inferior to your purpose? An found you are more incline to striking due to your natural ability to generate significant speed and power with your fist??
What if your better at Striking than grappling. You tried Grappling styles in the past and found them inferior to your purpose? An found you are more incline to striking due to your natural ability to generate significant speed and power with your fist??
IMO your fighting effectiveness is like the strength of a chain, viz only as strong as the weakest link. True effectiveness comes from working on and eliminating your weaknesses.
It’s a good idea to get as much experience and knowledge as possible, but I would suggest taking the time and dedication to learn the basics of one first say at least 6 months of dedicated training before tackling another. Simply because it could be confusing, but crosstraining is a great way to gain experience and open yourself to new ideas. So is simply sparring with people from other systems and trading ideas.
Quote:
In short develop each art fully for what they are don’t turn every lesson into a mixed martial arts class and take what your instructor gives you for what it is in each art and you will much better off in the long run.
[QUOTE=anerlich;938254]I agree with this - I too study and teach both WC and BJJ.
I think there is also a need for an occasional MMA. or integration class. You don’t want to teach what one of the more prolific but less intelligent posters here called a “mishmash” or “glorified kickboxing”, but IMO self defense and MMA have some skill sets outside both pure BJJ and traditional WC.[/QUOTE] (Anerlich)
[
B]***I THINK[/B] that integration classes are very important.
Otherwise it’s much too easy to fall into a dangerous pattern: you start doing things in your “striking art” class that could get you into trouble if wrestling/grappling were also included…
and likewise, you may tsart doing things in your “wrestling/grappling art” class that wouldn’t work if striking were allowed.
BUT I DO AGREE THAT YOU NEED TO SEPARATE THE TWO ARTS IN ORDER TO LEARN THEM.
So my point is that once you’ve gained a fair amoount of expertise in both arts - then it’s time to have
[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;938304]Andriank Said
What if your better at Striking than grappling. You tried Grappling styles in the past and found them inferior to your purpose? An found you are more incline to striking due to your natural ability to generate significant speed and power with your fist??[/QUOTE]
If you’re better at striking than grappling, then you try to keep the fight standing up, but always be as prepared as possible for a fight on the ground. Its a way of fighting that you cannot avoid in a general sense.
The idea that grappling is inferior to your purpose is ridiculous. Its like a grappler saying striking is inferior to their purpose. The fact of the matter is, grapplers cannot avoid striking, and strikers cannot avoid grappling, in a general sense.
What that means is, there is never NOT going to be a chance that you will run into someone who can take you to the ground. And there is never NOT going to be a chance that a grappler is going to run into a striker who can keep them on their feet. The ideas may sound contridactory, but they’re not and the reason why is because you never know who your next opponent is going to be, their skill level, or anything like that. Thus, you need to be prepared to fight not just in your strength but also in your weaknesses. A well rounded fighter can handle a greater number of opponents than a fighter who has only one specialty.
That being said, from a martial arts perspective, grappling is a part of fighting, not a style of fighting, thus as said before, it cannot be inferior to your purpose, your purpose is to fight in the situations where fighting is necessary. And the idea of a level of control over any situation to the point where you won’t ever be on your back or on the ground, fighting, shows a very clear lack of understanding of the way the world works. There is very little control you can exercise over a dangerous situation.
oh, where is HW108 to pound some sense into all of your knuckley-heads and shine the light of truth onto the path for the newbie troll? 
Glorified Wrestlers?