Making money in the Martial Arts

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

I was over on a business site and a MA school owner was talking about what he paid his instructors (Remember this is what he pays his employees)

What does your instructor make? Is he worth it or more?

"… says that his chief instructors make between $50,000 and
$120,000 a year. He believes that a chief instructor in the martial
arts should make as much money as he would in any other
profession.

“A career in the martial arts is the best thing I’ve ever done, and
I believe in giving anyone who wants the same an opportunity to do
so,” he says. “Each of my schools has at least two full-time
instructors and a parttime assistant instructor.”

2

That’s all good and everything but in order to make that kind of money in MA you have to run a major Mcdojo. Most of the time “profession” and martial arts don’t go together to well.

3

****… kiddie karate and cardio kung fu pay like that… I’m in the wrong profession:( …

4

I kinda doubt it.

Its a service industry, so if he was making that he would be servicing many, many people. He would be working like a dog and probably be making the same if he cut as much hair as he did taught kung fu.

Then again it also implies that so many people think he’s good that they pay him. Its a self promotion tactic. I met a fencing instructor that charges 175 dollars an hour. Doesn’t mean he gets it, but by naming such a price and doing cheap group rates, everyone feels they are getting a good deal.

Also its a business site, so he could be lying to get all the starving Sifu/Sensei’s thinking that they will keep the bill collectors at bay with his spiffy new system of having 8 businesses at once.

babysitting
aerobic instructor
personal trainer
spiritual guru/mentor
weight room/ gym operator
martial arts teacher
reatailer of martial arts equipment, videos, books
tournament promoter

if you take on eight businesses, and make your business your like, you too will make sick amounts of money.

5

Just do your math

Look at the biggest schools in your neighborhood, find our what they charge, estimate the amount of students, and estimate the expenses. Note - there are a lot of expenses you don’t see until you get into the business. While some instructors might make as much as $120,000 a year, most don’t. Martial arts instruction is a fairly competative field which pushes fair price down. A good location and a well run school can be lucrative, but that isn’t as easy a combination as it might seem. The good locations are already gobbled up by the real McDonalds - did you know that they purchased satellite pictures to chart community growth progress in order to best choose where to build a new place? Martial arts aren’t in that league at all. Martial arts business programs can really work, but those feed into one of those hidden expenses, so it’s quite a trade off. Actually, the restaurent business is a good analogy to martial arts, but while mcdojo is a great term, it’s a lot like comparing a cold to cancer. The martial arts is not anywhere near the big league stuff, no where near. EVen the biggest ‘mcdojos’ nationwide don’t measure up to the number of starbucks in any major city.
We are more like those little family-run restaurants, all independants trying to make ends meet.

6

"While some instructors might make as much as $120,000 a year, most don’t. "

There are many reasons for this. I met a TKD instructor who had 600 students. He charged $100.00 a month. Contracts made sure the payments came in.

I met Ju-Jitsu 10th degrees teaching out of his house at $35.00 a month. He had 25 students.

What makes on successful and another not? Marketing, sales, dynamic classes?

Just because you make a lot of money are you a mcdojo?

7

Martial arts as a career is not necessarily a bad thing. It could turn into a bad thing if you’re not careful. You start a school. You begin small with a few students upon whom you lavish a lot of attention. They are devoted and become good. Word gets around and more students want to join. So, you expand. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone wants to be successful. However, the bigger you get the more students you get with a “health club” mentality. Martial arts to them is the next trendy thing to do to get into shape. Like yoga, except with cool uniforms. To keep them entertained you begin to water down the lessons. If its too hard, the new students may leave. You start making a lot of money. The older students and the ones who really want to learn the style leave because a “health club” school is not what they signed on for. Suddenly, without realizing it, you own a McKwoon.

You could start a school with the best of intentions, but end up compromising yourself to be successful.

I think it was Yip Man who said (I’m paraphrasing) don’t make a martial arts school your career. You could end up cutting corners. I’d have to agree.

8

excellent post hai_to

9

I’ve been discussing this issue

with a number of my kung Fu Brothers some who own schools, and some who teach in the parkdistrict, or run Kid’s MA classes in local elementary schools (Like I used to), and the common consensus is to run a duel program. One where you are teaching the “Health Club/recreational” types, and a second where you teach purely Traditional.

I think the idea that most situated itself in my head is it should be made so those going on the Traditional program should have to QUALIFY first.

By doing this, you have a vast $$ producing machine with 200 + students at 100-120 a month (Karate school near my house is GETTIN $139 for 3Xa week), and a traditional program where the students can get secial perks, like unlimited acsses to the facilites and unlimited classes and such.

Here are some simple #'s based on the Kid’s program I used to run before my health problems forced me to shut it down.

I charged $10 a class for a single class per week, and $7 if they were signed up for all 3. Lets go with the $7 as it was most common.

25 students a night X $7 perstudent = $175 per night. Multippy this by three 'cause I had 3 classes a week, and you get $525 a week for 3 and 1/2 hours of work. I payed $12 per hour for the rent X4 hours a night, (or $48 out of my $175), and about $1000 a year for my insurance. All my insurance expenses were payed out of equipment sales for the season, plus some. The program ran for 9 months at a time with time off for summer (well, I worked with the hard core kids at a break even durring the summer)

So, if we take $175- $48 for the night rent, we get $127 a night, X 3 nights = $381 a week X 4 weeks= $1524 a month X 9 Months =$13716. Subtract $1000 for insurance (just to make it worst case senario Equipment sales covers this though,but), and you get $12716 a year.

Now, if I had been doing this FIVE nights a week, (fridays are always slow, so take that into account.) I’m looking at clearing around $17 G’s a year, on a simple part time program, with no more than 30 students. (I had 26 registered, but only about 22-23 would be there. They prepaid for the month, and were responsible to make up any misssed classes, so “I” got paid whether they were there or not. If I doubled my marketing, and had double the students I could be grossing $34,000 and still have summers off to futz off all I like

Most commercial schools have 150 to 200 for an average school. The big boys have 300-400 usually.

When you break it down, there IS big $$ in teaching Martial arts, IF you know how to promote yourself, and keep students. Six figures is NOT unheard of, and quite common for the bigger schools.

10

To be honest one of the major problems i have with the idea of becomming a commercial school is the lack of respect. Let me explain.

when you run a school with the idea of getting $$ you have to very activly seek out students. So in essence you become a sales person. This gives the student a feeling of power because they are the ones with the $$ to pay your rent, so you’d better please them. For that kind of attitude to exsist between the student and teacher can be harmful to the learning process. When the teacher has an alternate source of income it’s different.

Me for instance I teach a class at a local park district and can be more serious with my students because any money I get from that class is extra. I don’t depend on it and it gives me allot of freedom to be more honest in both verbal and physical ways that I wouldn’t have if I taught for a living.

BTW, RD your plan sounds good but it has one very large flaw. Most schools only really appeal to one type of crowd. If you are a tough guy you attract tough guys, if you run a “health club” you attrack those types. If you are teaching a large commercial type kids and “soccer mom” classes usually the real Martial artist’s will stay away from your school.

The best way to run a professional school is to think of some kind of side source of income. For instance Wing lam’s school has been successful with their mail order business which I am sure contributes heavliy to their school. I always though selling natural health products and message therapy would be a good side also. If I ever become a professional martial artist I will still do somthing like that to keep the doors open instead of “mcdojo” classes.

11

Good thread Dark Knight

I have a full time day job, 25 years with co. benefits, pays all the bills, blue collar though. I teach CMA part time at night. I say part time, but in my heart, I`m full time. What I do is rent space from a couple of dance schools. Rent meaning, a split of the tuitions I bring in. I have no overhead, with the exception of the “i” word, insurance. What do you think of a 30/70 split, of course 70% in my pocket? All of this being said, this approach has worked very well for me in my MA career. Stable day job, with the extra funds from MA training/teaching, my family can have a few extras.

Disadvantages=includes no weapons rack, no office on site, generally cannot decorate to look like the “Asian Kung Fu gwan” cadilac school!

Advantages=previously mentioned, no overhead, no **** bills! Although we are not in fancy feng shui, inscents burning dwelling. The emphasis with my Shr-fu is, the training. I am very satisfied that my students and myself are learning the true treasures of Praying Mantis Kung Fu.

Doesnt it make you sick to see the TKD schools, teach crap, yet make the money they do? I think people are easily brainwashed, and lazy!

Thanks for everyones input.

12

I think it can be done. Professional Gymnastic clubs survive on the “soccer moms” but draw the serious talent fro that pool. My daughter’s gym has allways done this, and used the Recreational students to fund the club for the hard core Olympic bound gymnasts. Her gym always has, and will continue to develop national level medal winners.

I don’t see why a martial art school can’t do the same thing.

I think all I have to do, is copy thier system and teach Kung Fu instead of gymnastics.

13

What do you guys think a martial arts school needs equipment wise? I’ve had one teacher say that the kids program brings in the cash so the adults can have the training toys. So bare bones, how much equipment do you really need to train?

14

Several bags, of vareing wieghts
Iron hand stuff.
A pile of round landscaping rocks of vareious sizes and wieghts.

All the general weapons.

Focus pads and kick sheilds.

Pull up bar??

You don’t need much!!

15
  1. thai pads/focus mits- enough so you don’t have a line of people waiting
  2. Kicking shield/cardio paddle
  3. Heavy bags
  4. Bag gloves/ wraps
  5. gloves (boxing or grappling) 2 sets at least
  6. Headgear
  7. elbow and or chest protector
  8. Shin pads
  9. A mat for throwing/wrestling
  10. jow/first aid

I don’t think you can have a professional school without these. I have taken classes and most are mickey mouse things thrown together. To make fighters, I think these training tools are essential..

of course all you really need is 2 people to learn a MA…but your hits wont be worth beans until you hit something solid.

16

local schools

Does teaching in local schools like university, college, highschool, either in club forms or class forms, will work? I think there is a lot of young people who are in the athletic programs in school, who didn’t make it in the team, would like to be a part of MA? The disadvantage in comparing TKD with CMA is that we really don’t have the kind of unified organization and international recognition like Olympic. But in many people’s mind, CMA means more than just hollow-selfproudness of TKD.

In fact, some one in Cal. State Fullerton just opened a Wushu class, it counts 1 unit. Kungfu is much better than Wushu, how come Wushu can do it we can’t?

17

Originally posted by yu shan
[B]
Doesnt it make you sick to see the TKD schools, teach crap, yet make the money they do? I think people are easily brainwashed, and lazy!

Thanks for everyones input. [/B]

It make me very sick, not only they get the money by teach crap, TKD people I have met acted as if they are the superior and others are all lower than they. I can’t wait to kick their *ss.

18

Stacey

  1. thai pads/focus mits- enough so you don’t have a line of people waiting
  2. Kicking shield/cardio paddle
  3. Heavy bags
  4. Bag gloves/ wraps
  5. gloves (boxing or grappling) 2 sets at least
  6. Headgear
  7. elbow and or chest protector
  8. Shin pads
  9. A mat for throwing/wrestling
  10. jow/first aid

I think you can have at most 2 pairs of : #7, 6, and 5.
Because ppl can buy their own. and wraps…ppl can definately buy their own wraps, hell no im wearing other ppls wraps, bleh.

Heavy BagS? as in plural? No you just need one at most, and many styles do not even use bags because the impact is not good for sensitivity in the hands.

Jow/First aid, a bottle of jow is like 10$ so thats not a big deal, and some bandaids and tape and wrap and what not.

I think a couple thai pads are good, and a few focus mits. but cardio paddles are not worth the money.

"I don’t think you can have a professional school without these. I have taken classes and most are mickey mouse things thrown together. To make fighters, I think these training tools are essential.. "
I’m suprised you said that because i know you come from mantis lineage…but think back decades if not an entire century or two, they may have had heavy bags at most. I don’t think a professional school needs anything more than a professional teacher…everything else is just frills and icing on the cake.

19

I have great respect for TKD schools that have lots of students and run big business.

If they were truly so terrible, nobody would patronize them. Such is the way of free enterprise.

One cannot deny the success TKD schools has. It goes beyond mere marketing; a school has to be able to retain students in order to stay afloat. I’ve trained in such schools - they know EXACTLY what they’re all about and use their collective power of group learning to make themselves better.

Also, most of the really good TKD schools I’ve been to have masters that know far more than just point sparring. They have the traditional knowledge hidden under the guise of “black belt and up” school. This is how they find out who’s capable of hardcore training. If you look at any TKD school that offers such a program, usually the number of people in the “black belt program” is smaller than the average kung fu class.

When I open up my own kung fu school, I’ll study closely the practices of the Mckwoons and TKD schools. If I’m smart, I’ll learn a thing or two from them about business and marketing.

20

Well said HuangKaiVun

You know, there are many Tae Kwon Do schools with 200-300 students. That’s a six figure income for the owner unless he’s really really deep in debt or something.

Now, if we were to “Kung Fu a’size” a Tae Kwon Do program, Or “Tae Kwon Do’ify” a Kung Fu program, there is no reason why ~WE~ can’t pull in six figure incomes from teaching too.

I’m actually planing to take Tae Kwon Do for a wile, not to learn the art, but to see how they are running thier buisness, so I can later open a school near them and steal all their students MUUUUUAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!:stuck_out_tongue: :smiley: :eek: