The Business of Martial Arts

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Northern Praying Mantis
1

Well, I am sadden to hear that HuaLin LaoShr closed his school. I am sorry to hear that my friend. It’s always a shame that TCMA school that tries to bring to the public the valuable teachings of MA fell into the hands of enconomics. This brings to some thoughts that I have when I was flipping the channels and saw the latest Taebo gimmicks. It all of a suddent hits me that. In this date and age, there may be a way to survive in teaching MA. We could say that there might just be a “formula”.

  1. develope a network of support through popularity.

This is the power seat of organized sports. Media and film industry attention are also most valuable game pieces.

  1. put together a marketing team.

The truth is nothing beats teamwork in business.

  1. mechandizing

In MA, the first product is of course yourself. You are selling you to the general public. Billy Blank sells Billy Blanks or rather what he does “best” first and foremost. There is nothing wrong in that providing that it’s backed by honesty and integrity.

  1. more mechadizing

Ideas, visions, and inspirations are the driving forces of sustainable business. Taebo is no longer only a cardio fitness class but also squeeze ball and suppliment. It is now a product that takes on a life of its own. That is what success is about these days.

  1. Seminar

Billy Blank holds Taebo seminar in Germany (huge crowd there too) and other places. His seminars are quit an awesome sight or at least it seems in the infomercials. It is a smart way to advertize. The image of him bringing Taebo to you sells very well. I think that’s how the grass root level support is there for him. Seminar re-enforces the popularity. We all know that these days popularity rules.

As much as Taebo isn’t my cup of tea, I have to admit that Billy Blanks is a very smart and successful MA businessman. There is a good lesson to be had for all of us.

Sorry about the not so mantis related topic rant but I just felt that losing a mantis school, especially someone who is passion about the art, to economics is so sad.

I hope that Hua Lin Lao Shr will regroup and go at it again whenever feasible. Don’t be discouraged, my friend.

Warm regards

Mantis108

2

Good points Mantis 108. I mulled over these exact things over 15 years ago when it was my desire to one day have a school.

Another route to go which would allow considerably more flexibilty would be to teach either privately or in a park or both until a student base could be built to support a full fledged school. I’m not sure that would be possible with WL although I think Shelly Huang down in South Florida is doing it if I remember correctly. That would be something HLLS would have to take up with MC or SC.

This is the case more often than not here in Southern California. I have found very few TCMA schools in buildings (at least good ones). 95% have been in the park and mostly unadvertised.

I like this option better at least in the beginning as it adds flexibilty to your schedule (don’t have to worry about opening the doors some days) and you don’t have the overhead of a school to worry about.

Perhaps this would be an option for HLLS in the future.

Good luck HLLS

3

learn the business

Hello,

If some one out there really wants to open and operate a successfull kung fu school, then to organizations I recommend is NAPMA (National Association of Professional Martial Artists) and MAIA (Martial Arts Industry Association). And remember, you do not need to sacrifice your the intensity of your art to be successful. You just need to restruction to let your students grow into the intensity.

If you need mmore information, email me.

Sincerely,

tanglang69

4

Here’s a brief rundown of some of the difficulties I had that brought me to where I am today. If anyone is planning a school someday it’s just as valuable to hear about failures as well as successes.

BTW, I lost my job so it seemed an opportune time to open a school especially before my savings ran out. I didn’t really have enough money but I crossed my fingers and went for it anyway.

Due to another Wah Lum school in close proximity to my hometown I had to open in an unfamiliar area. I researched other schools in the area but months after opening I found a lot more going on in the area than I first thought. Almost all TKD and all kids after school programs. The mentality in that area is that little kids do MA, not teenagers or adults. I didn’t have, or plan to have, an after school program.

Not researching local business plans and going for the most sq. ft. for my dollar put me in a nice unit but in an area of decline. The anchor store was a K-Mart that announced it’s closing less than a month after I signed the lease.

Everything cost more than I thought so by the time I opened a lot of my money was gone. I also ran into difficulities dealing with other businesses a far as getting quotes for work and getting work done.

Just having a good product or a big name behind you is not as important as you might think. Hardly anyone I talked to knew what Kung Fu was let alone Wah Lum, Master Chan or the Temple only 30 to 45 minutes away. As one of my students put it, nobody around there even drives up to Orlando.

After losing a lot of money and realizing that ‘break even’ was nowhere in sight I tried to find a gym, community center etc. to continue classes. Believe it or not everywhere I went already had a MA class. I tried every gym, church, YMCA, community center etc. I could find.

The one hour drive each way turned out to be very expensive. Not worth it unless you live on the outskirts and teach in the city. I was putting about 100 miles a day on an old car that now sits on the side of my house until I can get the money to fix it.

I’ve been a computer technician for the last 15 years and the jobs here are scarce to non-existant. I have friends that were forced to leave town for work. The only other thing I know is MA so my plan was to get out of the tech industry and just teach. I had no backup plan if the school failed. Don’t expect to make a living just teaching. That seems to work for some but not the majority. Most teachers have a day job.

Hope this helps someone. Feel free to ask me anything.

5

HLL
at least you had the b@lls to try. good effort. i think that you are correct about not being able to make a living teaching. maybe a select few. besides, i think it would put a lot of pressure on you, and take away most of the fun. woliveri has the plan with the park. i would never try opening a school. it takes away too many options, and i would think that at some point it may compromise some of your beliefs.

Suzuki tl1000s

6

Martial Arts Business is a Business

What many martial arts instructors fail to realize, especially kung fu instructors, is that martial arts is a business, like any other business and you have to treat it as such.

I am just starting to learn this as well.

If you plan to stay open and run a school and teach people traditional martial arts because you love kung fu and want to share your experience with your students, you can and enjoy the lifestyle you want. Whatever business plan you use it should include these three things.

  1. A good curriculum

This doesnt mean teaching people 25 sets in two-three years. Most of them cant do it anyways.

  1. Must be able to teach properly to the masses

This doesnt mean 2-3 hour classes with a 1 1/2 of it in a horse stance. This type of training may have worked in the shaolin temple. but it doesnt work today.

  1. And have to understand Business and Marketing

If no one knows you exist it doesnt matter who your teacher is or how good you profess you are. And to be honest with you. Most students. dont really care who your teacher is or how many trophies you have won. Most dont know the difference between kung fu, tkd or etc and could care less. In the big scheme of things, for the beginner student, its about how you make them feel.

It has little to do with where you are, the size of your school and who your teacher or grandteachers are. It depends on how hard you want to work to change the success of your school each day, week, month and year. You may have to work a little harder than others that are in prime locations that get a lot more traffic, but it means you may have to come up with creative ideas to tell people about your business.

I think a lot of times kung fu guys think because they are a student of so and so or they teach so and so style that when they open, people are just gonna come running in. And this is not the case. Like any other business, martial arts schools are a business and if you dont understand or have a mentor to teach,
it will not work.

all three are just as important, martial arts, teaching and the business and marketing.

7

Thank you all…

Wow, I am truely impressed with the genuine sharing of remarkable experiences and helpful informations. I would like to take this oppotunity to thank you for such wonderful dialogue. I think this discussion is one of the best yet.

Woliveri,

How goes it? I understand the unique situation that the Wah Lum organization has. I appreciate the information that you provide. I believe it would be helpful to those who wants to start up in the areas that you mentioned. Thank you. :slight_smile:

Greetings tanglang69,

Welcome aboard. Thank you for offering the information and the help. It is so nice to know there are resources for starting up and running a MA school in the States. Hope to here more insights and have your knowledge shared in the future.

Hi Hua Lin Laoshi,

My friend, you are truely a courageous soul. Your analysis of what would have been a rather painful experience is most remarkable. You are a warrior. I think the fight is still in you. When the moment comes, you shall rise up again. By sharing your lesson, everyone benefits immensely. If I may say so, Wah Lum should be very proud to have a representive such as yourself. sincere admiration of a fellow brave.

Mantiskilla,

I agreed with you.

Kickmantis,

Most excellent insights. I can totally relate to what you posted. Lots of good food for thoughts there. I think I will further my thoughts on your post later. Hope you don’t mind. Thank you very much for the generous sharing.

Warm regards to all,

Mantis108

8

I really appreciate everyone sharing so openly!! I am in the process of starting a school right now and I can definitely relate to the problems with contractors!
Hua Lin, I am truly sorry to hear about your school closing! I just lost my job in November and I am probably going through some of what you may have gone through. One of the things I enjoy most about Martial Arts are the people you meet and the friendships that are developed. I already had the pleasure of meeting Sifu Steve Cottrell and some of his students and I look forward to meeting more practitioners in the future!

9

Just noticed this, I too had a school for a while.
I was teaching NPM at the time.

I think you really need to sit down and write out what and why you want to teach and develop a curriculum that you can live with. One that is flexible enough to address the students perceptions while still maintaining your integrity and your arts.

Every one wants to learn it the same as what they have been told or see in the movies, few really want what they ask for. most don’t really relize the time and effort needed to make things work.

Opening a school can be very expensive; one way to mitigate this might be time-sharing with established schools in the area or buying some time from a dance studio.

i only play and teach taiji now, its not commercal

i wish you well in this endevor

10

teaching

when i taught, i taught out of a TKD school, i had classes when they didn’t or after their classes, it wasn’t a big TKD school so there was times available. Yu shan did the same, this way you don’t have the overhead of the school yourself and just split the tuition 70/30. They made a little bit they wouldn’t have had, it was just empty space for them. It was better than me taking 100% of the tuition and then having the expenses of my own school. Plus you get exposure of the people coming in for the tkd.

I think part of the problem with the wah lum organization is when you open a school you have to pay them $3000 up front. Right away your putting yourself in the hole. They don’t have it set up for the owner of the school to make money but for the wah lum organization to make the money.
I disagree with the franchise fee but i know some think it is okay. If they really want the organization to grow then they don’t need to put the owner in the hole on day one. If one of their schools is in trouble they should try and help out. Pay for some advertisement, do some demo’s in the area etc.

Starting any business is hard, most don’t make any profit the first 2 or 3 years.
Make sure you have a business plan, there is a nice software program called business pro. Pretty good, step by step explanation of writing a plan. Once you write your plan and find out all your costs you must try to stay on the plan. How many students will you try to get each month, what can you pay on advertisements etc. Get out there and work it hard, pass out flyers door to door, just don’t sit in the school and wait for someone to come knocking( it’s not the field of dreams).

The biggest thing to have is enough money to survive on for a few years. find out what your bills are and what you will need to get by without a paycheck for a year or two. If you can survive on a spouse’s incoming that is great.

Next thing is alway borrow money from someplace else, not yourself. I know that sounds kind of tough but ask any successful business person and they will tell you that for sure.

Another thing is find someone who is doing great with their school, talk to them and see what they are doing and try to improve it. The japanese are great for that, find something that works and make it better.
try to hold seminars, invite other teachers and host the seminar, post it here on KFM.

I think a kung fu school is a difficult business and wish anyone luck in trying it. Some people make a great living at it.

11

Teaching Martial Arts professionally is a Business and we have to address it as such.

A couple of thoughts:

We are not offering a commodity" ie; kung fu, Bjj, TKD etc, rather we are offering a service.
If we look at it from a service industry standpoint we may be more successful.

“what can I do put my service in demand?”

Most people don’t want to learn Northern Praying Mantis. Most don’t know what the difference between kung fu and TKD. We have to 1st educate the clients and also provide what they are looking for. ie: fitness, self-defense, a place to belong.

A well laid out curriculum is important. As much as I don’t like the sash/level (WLers know what I mean) students like to "feel and have outward recognition of progress. Sashes or levels seem to be important in retaining students.

Only 20% of your students will train hard and love the art like you do. BUT it’s the other 80% that will put the bread on the table. Provide a quality service to the 80% and you are on your way to running a successful school.

just some thoughts,

Joe Mantis

12

On a previous thread on 6/12/2002 Hua Lin wrote: “What I’m facing now is the need to make money with the school however the last thing I want is the after-school-babysitting-just-to-pay-the-bills program.”

On 4/9/2004 Hua Lin wrote: “I researched other schools in the area but months after opening I found a lot more going on in the area than I first thought. Almost all TKD and all kids after school programs. The mentality in that area is that little kids do MA, not teenagers or adults. I didn’t have, or plan to have, an after school program.”

On 6/12/2002 Spiralstair wrote:
"Be careful not to fall into the elite martial arts snobbery thing… it sounds like something like this ’ I only want to teach those who are ready to receive the TRUE Transmission, no unwilling, unable or half-a$$ed need apply’.

The hard facts of the Western lifestyle for the martial arts teacher are: Rent, Utilities, Taxes, and students who have many choices and not much ability to discern the ‘real’ from the ‘hyped’.

“Babysitting” is for babysitters. A physical training progran for children contained within the framework of a Kung Fu school is another thing altogether. No, the kindergarten age kids can not do a sit-up. But there is a interesting progression of movement that builds the strength required. Strength in the abdomen. Sounds like Kung Fu.

I teach 50 kids a week (kindergarten-4th Grade) in 3, 60 minute classes. It costs the parents $10 per week/per child. My school gets $500 per week for 3 hours work that I prepare professionaly to give a valuable class in the movement basics that I have learned are essential through my study in CMA. 150 hours a year for a strong financial foundation for my school.

I don’t teach ‘Respect means do Your Homework’ and all that other stuff , that is the parents job. I’m a physical trainer, and even though most kids can’t learn Kung Fu form well till they’re in 3rd-4th grade, there are other physical things that they must learn for the right foundation.

Study. There are dozens of good sources for information about correct pyhsical training for children. Find them and adapt them to your Martial Art that comes from China, a culture where the teacher 'slaps ‘em into shape’.

After all, what’s more of a challenge, passing your knowledge on to someone who loves Kung Fu as much as you, or finding the ways to help those who will forget to even say " thank you"?

13

Spiralstair,
Good stuff.
So what do you do with the pre4th grade kids?

14

Hi Tainan,
I just got back from practicing ‘seeking center’ on the other thread. Couldn’t find one…

The 1st thing that I think is important with young kids is the form in which the class runs. To keep the kids energy up I run a class that moves pretty much at this rate: 50%group activity/50%individual activity; 5 minutes of quick and intense movement(usually in a group); followed by 5 minutes focussed activity(ususally 1 child at a time while the group sits). This method begins to teach kids to manage their energy while respecting their basic need to nudge.

By the age of ten young children should have a ‘reference library’ of movement ability that includes running, skipping, jumping, hopping, crawling, throwing, catching, climbing, kicking, blocking, punching, falling, seperating(left and right), connecting(limbs through the middle), absorbing(contact to the body).
All these movements should be able to be performed double and single leg, left and right, up and down, foward and back, where it is possible.

If a child develops these things they then have the foundation to become ‘sport specific’ as they move into adolescence.

This is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to children’s training. I think that the CMA is an ideal setting to learn these things because of the ‘setting’ of the Kung Fu school allows the children to focus better than the outside world.

15

As usual everyone has well thought out ideas about what to teach, how to structure classes, all very generalized. I offered a childrens class. It may very well have been the best childrens kung fu class ever. I’ll never know. Problem is I never got any kids. What did I find out? Seems like every kid in the area already goes somewhere. At least as far as I could tell talking to parents. So how do you get them to switch over from an established school to your new place when you are an unknown? How do you compete with schools that have been marketing and running a successfull after school program for years? How do you beat them at their own game?

Pretty much all that’s been said I’ve heard before. Offer a service? I tried. I downplayed the tradition and tried to sell the health benefits, a service. Tai Chi for health for older folks, Kung Fu for self-defense and weight loss.

Well laid out curriculum? Wah Lum has one that’s been developed by Master Chan over his long career of teaching. The curriculum doesn’t bring in students.

spiralstair
You’re jumping to conclusions with your quotes. I don’t have a problem with teaching kids. The thing is if I had a kids class it would have been all kung fu, not homework, not games, not ‘let’s find something to keep them occupied so I can get paid’. Around here it’s babysitting. I’ve visited local Karate schools and saw the kids eating snacks, watching TV. I’m sure there was an actual class but they certainly didn’t train the whole time they were there. Also, daycare is a highly regulated business and lately these schools have had to get licensed like a daycare to run these programs. I have no interest in being in that business. So how about sharing some details on how you got those 50 kids a week. How did you get the first 10? What’s the minimum age you take? Big question is how much help do you have?

Most of the comments deal with retaining students. That’s a great help but you have to get up and running first.

There was a cheerleading school right next door. I offered a discount to family members of anyone there. I got zero takers. Younger or older brothers? Already going to TKD. Parents? Too old (according to them) for kung fu. Tai Chi? Various excuses why they can’t (hurt my wrist was one).

I offered family rates which I found out other schools in the area did not offer. I drove around every day putting out flyers. I tried doing a show (some of you know how that went) and a seminar. Advertised in the paper, at East Coast Martial Arts Supply, personally went to every MA school in the area, wrote an article that was published in a local health magazine along with an ad.

My personal experience? You can run an after school MA Daycare or a MA Country Club where you don’t break a sweat and make money or teach real martial arts and work a day job. Personally I would rather close a martial arts school rather than turn it into something else. If I’m an elite snob for that then oh well.

Sorry for ranting but I’m a bit stressed today. Tax time and I’m forced to revisit how much money I lost.

16

spiralstair
Do you pick the kids up yourself or hire a service to do that for you? How long do you have the kids and how much help do you have with the class? Are snacks and drinks included? If they don’t train the whole time they’re there what do they do?

Not picking on you, just curious.

17

Hua Lin

If teaching martial arts is really what you want to do. I wouldnt give up man. It seems as if you are very frustrated right now. But, some of the most successful people have fallen at least once or twice before they were successful.

When you are able, I suggest you do some GOOD research on how to start and operate a successful school.

There are schools that don’t run a daycare, teach children and adults traditional martial arts in a organized and structured way
and still over them life skills; self confidence, self esteem and etc because without these you are merely a coach/trainer and not a sifu. You can still learn to enjoy the life style you want, run a successsful school and feel good about what you teach at your
school.

People who teach children and adults martial arts without giving them life skills, are merely trainers and coaches. Any idiot can teach a kid to kick and punch, run around the school and punch a bag.

Childrens and Adults alike, need help, and they look to martial arts and other programs to help them.

18

spiralstair,
Thanks for the info.

I feel that going to lengths to operate a MA business is counter to what I want to do and counter to why I joined in the first place.

I like to spar or fight with other MArtis.
That has little to do with running a MA business.

For my own, non lucrative MA career, I just train people so that they can qualify to be my training partner.

So when I move to the states I think i’ll just have a little Chinese barley and tea shop with a student or two, if I am lucky.

19

Tainan,
I agree with your points. Those are the same reasons I love CMA.
As I got older though I got tired of the day job/night training routine and decided a full time school would give me the options pf practice time, teaching experience, and sparring opportunities that I needed to deepen my practice.

I found a good space in an R+D type industrial park with high ceilings and cheap rent(much easier on the wallet than a storefront operation). I advertised in the Yellow pages and with flyers and cheap mailings(I stayed away from newspapers, local phone books, gimmick stuff like calenders, back of movie tickets, all too expensive).
I had a LOW OVERHEAD, so no overwhelming pressure to make it ‘out of the gate’. My student base built slowly by word of mouth and in the beginning I offered everything I could at all hours( T’ai chi, Kung Fu, Chi Kung, for adults, children, and pets) until I had established the ‘coordinates’ of the desires of the population in my area. I’ve found that almost all my students come from an area of approx 10 miles around my school, so what kind of people are inside that ring is a crucial thing to establish, for one has to adapt what one wants to do to what the people who will pay you want to pay for.(Sparring class at the Senior Center doesn’t enroll, and doesn’t pay)

In time in my area I found that morning Kung Fu class immediately after school drop off was popular with stay at home moms. Most were looking for something deeper than Tae Bo and Kung Fu fit the bill. Most weren’t ‘serious’ students, some were, one went on to become a teacher in my Kung Fu style.

Tai chi at noon worked in my area, the people in the Industrial park would come in for a 45 minute session 3 times per week.
I don’t have showers so it worked for them to return to work without too much sweat. In time these people would come to T’ai Chi I offered twice weekly at night after my late Kung Fu classes.

Adult Kung Fu happens 4 days a week in the evenings.

Childrens class worked best when I divided it by grade level.
1st grade (noone younger/too frustrating)
2nd grade-3rd grade (similar needs/abilities)
4th-6th grade (ability to learn kung fu in a traditional manner)
anyone over 13 yrs old is in with the adults.
Each kids class happens 1/2 hour after school closes, parents drive/pickup, I provide no ‘entertainment’, no snack, it 's all work for them for 1 hour and that’s how I market it. Otherwise what’s the point, I don’t want to be the Kung Fu Clown at some kid’s ‘theme’ birthday party.

On an occasional weekend I rent out my space to an organization and/or teacher whose group needs a large open space and won’t trash mine. In time I have ‘regulars’ who provide a dependable supplemental income.

That’s it. The rest of the time belongs to me. To practice, train with my Kung Fu brothers, travel to train with my teachers. push hands/fight, read the Forum.

It’s a great way to live, if you love the CMA and don’t want to drive a Jag.

20

spiralstair
You have a lot of good information that could really help new school owners. There is a Sifu area of the WL website. Under Instructor Info there is a section called Beginning School Guidelines. You will notice that there is nothing there. I had planned to write up a few things for new school owners to help them get started but got sidetracked trying to find rent money. Maybe you could share a little so others can avoid a trial and error startup. There’s no reason for a new Sifu to be on his/her own when there is so much experience out there in the WL family.

And I mean details too if you can. This goes out to the rest of the WL Sifu’s too. Marketing plans and materials, building plans for an alter and weapons rack, recommendations for insurance carriers, structuring classes. There shouldn’t be any school failures in an organization this large and this old.

Agree or disagree I think it should be more like a franchise. A turn key operation with everything you need to open a WL school. Marketing and promotional materials, sample contracts if you choose to offer them, building plans for the alter, instructions for obtaining licenses, list of things you need to do or purchase, etc. I bet if all the schools got together and went with one insurance company they could get a good discount. I realize every location is different but why re-invent the wheel every time? I’m all for flexability and autonomy in a school but a little help in the beginning would ensure a successful startup.

Tainan Mantis
“I feel that going to lengths to operate a MA business is counter to what I want to do and counter to why I joined in the first place.”
My sentiments exactly although my reasons for joining are a little different. I’m not looking to get rich, I just feel it’s a good opportunity to be do what I want and I feel obligated to share what I’ve learned over the years. Something I had planned on doing someday back when I was training in Kenpo.