Originally posted by Vapour Plus, I don’t do boxing but I think boxer spend majority of training doing other than sparing where each training emphasise particular aspect of boxing.
You are right. Not all boxing is sparring. However, the majority of boxing training is done at full speed with either a partner or some type of equipment to help to develop the proprioceptive senses that are integral to any effective fighting system.
There’s nothing wrong with training particular aspects of fighting, as long as it’s not done slower or too much out of context than needs to be performed “for real”. Even shadowboxing, which is arguably the second least scientific aspect of boxing training, is done at full speed.
Originally posted by Vapour It is similar to doing Power Yoga. Have you tried to hold yoga posture for long time? Trust me on this but doing form slowly is far more physically demanding because of the heavy demand placed on body especially on leg strength and flexibility.
Being physically demanding does not necessarily translate into improved performance in the real world. A good example of this is Super-Slow weight lifting. This method of weight training was popularized a few years ago and is extremely hard to do. The problem is it has been shown to be quite less effectvie than faster, more traditional forms of weight training for the development of strength and power.
FORMS were created to convey a set pattern of movements mimicing the movements of either combat (ex; hsing-i, pakua)
or the percieved movements of animals in combat(predominantly in most martial systems).
FORMS were also used as code to convey the various lineages and sects of the different schools(ex. shaolin ,hung gar,tang lang). WHICH is where most of these ramblings are based on.
Forms also serve as a means to increase the body’s flexability and stamina, and some of them have no real combat applications.
Some forms focus mainly on developement of the internal system.
I my opinion i believe that forms are not set,nor are they the same as they are handed down. You can create your own form for whatever you want IF you have the knowledge and the creativity to do so. i am an advocate of the creative process of learning a form then forgetting it and then creating your own to improve upon oneself in mind,body,spirit.
You know its okay to be a part of one form or system and it is also okay to blend and mix and be a part of many systems.
each will do the form differently and if you have no form and no routine to train by then thats fine as well. who are you trying to prove yourself to? your peers your teacher? your ability is your own either in form,fighting,or both.
Hmmm, firstly we practice technique against resisting opponent in pushing hand so someone criticisimg taijiquan form for not doing partner work is shooting completely wrong target.
As of speed, there is some confusion as to the nature of speed. Strictly speaking, muscle do not react faster just because you repeat movement fast. Reaction speed of each muslce cell is determined by electric impulse while the strenght is determined by the quantity of muslce (as well as what type of muscle you develop). So doing more weight will certainly make your arm stronger and your punch more powerful but performing drill fast will not necessarily make you move faster. Doing drill work has marginal benefit of developing certain part of muscle which is used lot in performing particular movement but that is all to it. And if you are performing technique incorrectly, you might develop wrong muscle which works against your speed.
What in fact happen is that some people move more efficiently than other which make his movement faster while his/her muscle move at the same speed as next guy. So idea that moving slow teach muscle to be slow is not correct.
Main important in faster movement is relaxation. It especially become apparent in weapon work but those who is tence is very slow no matter what. One way to correct that is to make this person do drill work many many times. This won’t teach his muscle to move faster but his muscle get so tired that he has no other choice but to relax, hence learning the first step in having faster move.
In taijiquan’s case, you can perform form extremely slowly paying particular emphasis on relaxation. My take is that when I can do particular technique correctly in the form, I can easily perform the technique fast. However, if I just repeat particular technique, because fast performance of form will not let me examine my performance in detail, I never seems to be able to correct the technique until I get back to doing technique slowly. Usually, if you can do technique extremely slow, you can easily do that technique fast.
Once that sorted, we test it out in pushhand or sparing to see whether each techinque will stand out with resisting partner. If it doesn’t we get back to the form to correct any fault we discovered.
Originally posted by Laughing Cow
[B]Training forms slowly is done to perfect techniques, breathing, movements, etc.
Most training is circular, the flaws that you notice during sparring, push-hands, etc are being corrected in the forms training and than re-tested. [/B]
According to the current research on motor skill development, mistakes are better corrected by breaking the techniques down into component parts and practicing doing the components correctly in real-time speed.
Being physically demanding does not necessarily translate into improved performance in the real world. A good example of this is Super-Slow weight lifting. This method of weight training was popularized a few years ago and is extremely hard to do. The problem is it has been shown to be quite less effectvie than faster, more traditional forms of weight training for the development of strength and power. [/B]
Yes, main focus of body building in taijiquan is leg strenght and flexibility so yoga like work out is quite fine. As of upper body, main focus is on relaxation which as I have explained translate to speed.
if you perform a motion repeatedly at high speeds, yes the speed of the motion will increase.
will the speed of your reaction that is supposed to start that motion increase? no. to increase this speed you need to practice the cause/reaction pattern, gradually making it faster and repeating it until it becomes a toughtless reaction.
Originally posted by Knifefighter
According to the current research on motor skill development, mistakes are better corrected by breaking the techniques down into component parts and practicing doing the components correctly in real-time speed.
No argument there.
Any decent TMA Instructor will tell you take out moves from a form and practice them solo or just the area where you got a problem.
components correctly in real-time speed.
Point here being correct, most people I have seen develop very sloppy habits when they train full-speed and tend to rely solely on muscle-power and forget their styles principles, etc.
As for current research, I am sure that in a few years we will have a new reasearch showing that current methods are wrong and obsolete.
Sorry, I am not a believer in following the latest training fads.
According to the current research on motor skill development, mistakes are better corrected by breaking the techniques down into component parts and practicing doing the components correctly in real-time speed. [/B]
I haven’t read the research you are quoting on but I’m quite sure that “doing the components CORRECTLY” is the main point. And there is no other better way to get to correct performance of technique than by doing it slowly. Once done that, speeding up is pieace of cake. It’s pretty much same in judo. You do a technique verly slowy and then gradually increase the resistance in ground work. On the other hand, in throw, cooperation of partner is fundamental in doing kata throw.
Plus as far as I know all high level judo player empahsise the benefit of kata practice where practice is done cooperatively. Getting to the feel for correct performance of technique is the main part. After that you try it out on randori. So it pretty much similar to taijiquan. Plus I forgot to mention but most taijiquan style has pushing hand kata just like judo.
My taijquan lesson usually start from warm up, then we pick few (or one) movements in the form and we do drill work of this particular posture move, in which our instructor explain finer detail of this posture move. Next, we do pushing hand kata and then we have free pushing hand where we have go at our classmates. Lastly, we do our form very slowly, concentrating on particular theme you noticed or indicated by our instructor. This format can’t be that different from any other martial arts.
Originally posted by Laughing Cow
[B] As for current research, I am sure that in a few years we will have a new reasearch showing that current methods are wrong and obsolete.
Sorry, I am not a believer in following the latest training fads. [/B]
Of course previous methods will become obsolete as new studies uncover more efficient methods to achieve results. Research builds on what has been learned before and leads to improved training methods.
Many MMA fighters are incorporating the latest research from the fields of exercise science, biomechanics and motor learning into their training and fighting methods while many traditional martial artists are still clinging to antiquated methods. Hmmm… I wonder if that might have something to do with the success of the MMA fighters over TMA’s.
Can you imagine where the field of computer science would be if everyone was afraid of following the “latest fads”?
Of course previous methods will become obsolete as new studies uncover more efficient methods to achieve results. Research builds on what has been learned before and leads to improved training methods.
Many MMA fighters are incorporating the latest research from the fields of exercise science, biomechanics and motor learning into their training and fighting methods while many traditional martial artists are still clinging to antiquated methods. Hmmm… I wonder if that might have something to do with the success of the MMA fighters over TMA’s.
Can you imagine where the field of computer science would be if everyone was afraid of following the “latest fads”? [/B]
Originally posted by Knifefighter You sure wouldn’t be able to run into the corner computer store, pick up a PC for under $1000 and be posting on the internet a couple of hours later.
No, but the software would be a whole lot more reliable.
Originally posted by Knifefighter You sure wouldn’t be able to run into the corner computer store, pick up a PC for under $1000 and be posting on the internet a couple of hours later.
I disagree, there.
First of all it takes me only 15 minutes to setup and connect a PC to the Net.
But than I got LOTS of experience doing it.
I can tell you from my work experience that the majority of IT-staff spend applying fixes, solving problems and upgrading stuff.
Very little time is actually spend on proper development.
The current software is written so shoddy, that most of them would have never even be considered for usage 15yrs ago.
Plus, the software packages are sooo bloated with useless features and in size that require hardware upgrades.
Ever wondered why Microsoft and Intel/hardware makers are so buddy/buddy.
So, yes, the hardware is cheap, but you got to add the cost of upgrades, tech support, etc.
BTW, I let you in on a little secret.
It is the Games market that is responsible for the push to newer, more powerful CPU’s and hardware not the everyday usage.
