Just thought it would be interesting to see how many of you do cross train in some kind of ground fighting art as well as Kung Fu. If you do, what is the system, and how long have you been cross training?
The reason I post this is because I saw a thread once on another board that asked “why Kung Fu people diss groundfighting so much.”
I posted that most I’ve talked to seem to incorporate some kind of ground game in their training.
Ryu
most kung fu people i know who diss groundfighting don’t actually diss groundfighting, but rather are sick of hearing about it. they understand the outright NEED to know how to fight on the ground and the NEED to practice that, too. fact is, fights can and do go to the ground, and not being able to fight on the ground means you’re weak in a large portion of your training. it’s like having the best unarmed stuff around, but having no experience in dealing with armed attackers.
i don’t officially cross-train in another style. wt actually has a lot ground stuff – you just need to have the right instructor who knows how to teach it. the majority of it is the same as the standing stuff as far as techniques go, you’re just applying them at non-verticle positions. i’ve actually found chi sau easier to do when either in mount or with someone up on me. i think a lot of the concepts are the same standing as they are down – stay nose to nose with your opponent, but if you can flank them, do it and take their back, because no one is good when getting drilled in the back of the noggin.
RYU…well I’m starting to see MANYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY skools( TKD, CMA, JKD etc… )offer a grappling program…it’s starting to RUFFLE the feathers of BJJ skools cause it’s undercutting the business and $$$. But to be honest…BJJ and/or wrestling are like any martial arts…taught by a descent instructor…u get descent results! U may not be the best of the best training with pure BJJ guys…but u’ll have enuf mat time and tech. that u’ll be a threat in the street.
you can study ground fighting in kungfu training. Kungfu is “crosstraining” in many respects.
consider the forms as being many combinations strung together so the student will:
a) not become bored with the repititiousness of singular combinations drilled again and again and again. (Although ultimately this is required to gain kungfu in anything.)
b) be instilled with a large framework of material to draw from to do combat with.
c) explore the body holistically through turning inward and expressing subtle energies which in turn benefit the health.
The many styles of chinese martial arts covers a huge body of material taught both by cannonized and relational methods over vast expanses of time.
it does indeed include systems for wrestling and close fighting.
literally 1000’s of chin na techniques. Several styles of wrestling and close fighting, etc etc etc.
Granted these styles aren’t as abundant as the many schools that offer japanese traditional ground fighting arts and wrestling arts, not to mention the hybridized competition arts that have come from these. But they are still there.
Anyway, just sayin…
peace
BULLSEYE!!!
Originally posted by rubthebuddha
you just need to have the right instructor who knows how to teach it. the majority of it is the same as the standing stuff as far as techniques go, you’re just applying them at non-verticle positions.
rubthebuddha,
You are a smart person.
I’ve been waiting to hear someone say that on every board i visit.Alot of techniques can be used standing and in groundfighting.If you train using your techniques you’ll know how to apply them from different angles.
Too many people learn forms but don’t learn how to apply the techniques from those forms.We train forms but always from a combat applications angle.Which means we won’t win alot of first places in forms divison but we kick butt in sparring.
You don’t need Bjj to assist kung fu.
All you need is a sifu that can show you how to apply technique and you’ll be fine.
There are three parts to learning a kung fu form.
Most schools just do #1
Very few make it to #3
When i say make it i mean fully to that level.Some schools do combat application ,but not working on both sides left and right.
Every technique you do with your right hand you should be able to do with your left hand.It does’nt matter if one is your stronger hand they both should be equal when applying a technique.
jmd161:)
How do u do a spin kick on the ground if this is the case???
Ok i’ll play along.
LEGEND,
Why would you want to do a spin kick on the ground?
I don’t think that’s a good question.
You would’nt want to try a spin kick from a mounted position or from the bottom.But a phoenix eye punch works just as well from either position.
Also a snake fist strike along the centerline.A chin na wrist or elbow lock works just as well.
Those type of techniques.
A spinning sweep would work against multiple attackers.
jmd161:)
Similarities
A Chinese Tornado Kick, you know the one that is like doing cresent kicks lying on the ground and flip up, is not unlike the Judo/BJJ Upa drill mechanics wise. 
So to presume that Kung Fu doesn’t have GF skill is just an erronious assumption. Having said that not a lot of Kung Fu people are taught the finer points of these basic stuff during the fundamental stage neither. Hell… WuShu really screw it up for Kung Fu. It gives that wrong impression to the public. What can we do? 
Mantis108
I study a southern CMA and have just started training in BJJ. The CMA has a ground-fighting component also. This differs from the theory of BJJ and is taught at senior levels as the basic concepts are required knowledge before the rolling starts. I do BJJ as well because the primary focus is ground-fighting while the CMA is focussed more on stand-up.
I disagree with some of these posts. alot of the techs do not directly translate to the ground. you can do 100 tornados a day if you want to, but if you don’t apply them on the ground, you will NEVER do an upa on the ground. movement is different on the ground, so alot of the chin na techs can be neutralized, as you can move in directions on the ground that you cannot do while standing.
back to the original topic though, I do bjj and judo. the kung fu people I know that are either grappling hobbyists or don’t grapple at all repeatedly diss grappling, as they don’t see the subtlety and importance of positioning and structure. they think it’s mainly just struggling on the ground, and trying to get either a choke or armbar.
sevenstar,
then you’re just hanging around kung-fu fighting goons. 
anyone who DOESN’T acknowledge that the ground is different is also a moron. straight arm work is much the same, but hooking motions are limited as you can’t use your hips for much power, and to me, hip and leg positioning play an even more important role on the ground. and kicks? forget about it. there ARE differences.
even worse, when your opponent has your back in stand-up, you have some options. but most of the time i’ve seen someone get to someone’s back on the ground, it was over before i could blink.
basically, i feel that the ground and the standing attributes are quite different, but the best way (again, this is my opinion) is to have stuff in your arsenal that works in BOTH environments, and know how to blur the line between ground and up, between long range and short range, so you don’t have to switch from one style to another simply because you got knocked on your duff, or because you won’t go to the ground because it’s 2 or 3 on 1.
and i know the disrespect goes both ways. a college wrestler i met tried to start some crap with a thai fighter buddy. the wrestler said that once he got in, he has it made. the thai bugger said “then get in.” shoot number one and it’s a knee to the wrestler’s shoulder (missed the head, darnit) that nearly dislocated it. the thai guy started strutting, and shoot number two had him on his ass. both guys got a quick lesson in perspective that night.
In addition to Baguazhang, Kali, and Taijiquan, I also have studied Machado JJ on an occasional basis since 96.
It’s a great system, IMO. Not perfect, but higher percentage of direct translation to street than many arts.
I don’t need to go to the ground to hurt someone.
Originally posted by SanSoo Student
I don’t need to go to the ground to hurt someone.
good for you, but someone may prefer to take you to the ground as their preferred method of hurting you, and you may not have a choice in the matter.
Originally posted by SanSoo Student
I don’t need to go to the ground to hurt someone.
And your point is…
It depends on your style also.
Originally posted by SevenStar
I disagree with some of these posts. alot of the techs do not directly translate to the ground. you can do 100 tornados a day if you want to, but if you don’t apply them on the ground, you will NEVER do an upa on the ground. movement is different on the ground, so alot of the chin na techs can be neutralized, as you can move in directions on the ground that you cannot do while standing.
SevenStar,
I assume you study 7 star mantis?
Maybe you don’t have many techniques in 7* mantis that you can use on the ground?
I don’t know i’ve never studied 7* mantis ,but in Black Tiger and my Bak Sil Lum,and Cheung Kune Pai training i can think of alot of techniques i can use on the ground.I’m not talking about grappling techniques i’m talking about striking techniques.
My Black Tiger training serves me the best for groundfighting whether grappling or striking.
jmd161:)
sure, striking, I’m talking about grappling. nah, I don’t train in sevenstar, I just like the name.
Originally posted by rubthebuddha
[B]sevenstar,
then you’re just hanging around kung-fu fighting goons.
anyone who DOESN’T acknowledge that the ground is different is also a moron. straight arm work is much the same, but hooking motions are limited as you can’t use your hips for much power, and to me, hip and leg positioning play an even more important role on the ground. and kicks? forget about it. there ARE differences.
even worse, when your opponent has your back in stand-up, you have some options. but most of the time i’ve seen someone get to someone’s back on the ground, it was over before i could blink.
basically, i feel that the ground and the standing attributes are quite different, but the best way (again, this is my opinion) is to have stuff in your arsenal that works in BOTH environments, and know how to blur the line between ground and up, between long range and short range, so you don’t have to switch from one style to another simply because you got knocked on your duff, or because you won’t go to the ground because it’s 2 or 3 on 1.
and i know the disrespect goes both ways. a college wrestler i met tried to start some crap with a thai fighter buddy. the wrestler said that once he got in, he has it made. the thai bugger said “then get in.” shoot number one and it’s a knee to the wrestler’s shoulder (missed the head, darnit) that nearly dislocated it. the thai guy started strutting, and shoot number two had him on his ass. both guys got a quick lesson in perspective that night. [/B]
good post.
Read my profile Ryu…later buddy, time for bed.